29 JanEpisode 116 | How to make sure your dog never swallows a bully stick: Expert advice from Vaso Karras, the inventor of the Bully Grip
Dogs love bully sticks, and the weird world of dried bull penises (which is what they're made of) has become a bit of an obsession of Annie's. In this episode, she interviews someone else who is obsessed with them: Vaso Karras, the inventor of the Bully Grip. When dogs swallow small pieces of bully sticks, they can cause potentially-fatal intestinal blockages. Karras' puck-like rubber device is designed to slide over a bully stick and lock onto it, making it nearly impossible for a dog to swallow its nub. Annie interviews her about how she dropped everything in order to devote her life to figuring out how to help dogs chewing bully sticks safely.
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Mentioned in this episode:
You can purchase all three sizes of the Bully Grip at StoreForTheDogs.com.
You can purchase bully sticks there, too.
And the Qwizl, which is also mentioned in this episode.
How to insert a bully stick into the Bully Grip.
Visit School For The Dogs Community App to see a video on removing the bully stick from the holder.
More on bully sticks:
Episode 79 | What is a bully stick? A very detailed answer to an awkward question
Dogs love bull penises, and you will too
5 Bully stick holders your dog wants to try
Episode 25 | A Better Mousetrap: Building The Perfect Bully Stick Holder
Transcript:
[Intro and music]
Annie:
Hello, Vaso! I’m here with Vaso Karras, the creator of the bully grip. Thank you so much for taking the time to talk.
Vaso Karras:
Thanks for having me. I'm really excited to be here.
Annie:
So the Bully Grip — well, maybe you can explain exactly what it is, but I can tell you that I heard about it through a client some years ago. We've been carrying it in the shop now, oh, I guess for about a year. It is a bully stick holder, and you're actually the second bully stick holder inventor I've had on this podcast. So I guess you could say it's a sub interest of mine. But why don't you describe exactly what the product is and then maybe you can talk about how you came up with this product to begin with.
Vaso:
Yeah, sure. I would love to. So our product is called the Bully Grip and it's made from all natural rubber. It's tested in the US for toxins. So it's a very safe product for your dog to have anywhere near its mouth or to chew on. And how it's used is you twist it onto a bully stick.
It's one solid piece because there's — working in the dog field, we feel that when we created this, we didn't want to have two separate parts because the more parts, the more dangerous for the dog itself. They tend to chew on things. So we don't want them to accidentally swallow part two or part B. So, yeah, so it's made from one natural ingredient, rubber and it bounces and it wobbles. It's also a toy as well as —
Annie:
Looks kind of like a hockey puck.
Vaso:
Yeah. Or a skateboard wheel.
Annie:
Right. With a hole in the middle.
Vaso:
Yes. and how it works is there's some center beads, so it has to be twisted on. If you try to push your stick in, you're not going to get your bully stick into the holder. It has to be twisted on. And once it's twisted onto the thickest part of the stick, dogs do not know how to twist cause they don't have fingers. Sometimes they can try to use their jaws to do a little bit of twisting, but they have a very, very difficult time. Most dogs cannot get a bully stick out of the bully grip.
Annie:
What gave you the idea that there was a need for a product like this to begin with?
Vaso:
Well, some dogs don't have the tendency to try to swallow things whole, and I have had dogs in my life — but I purchased a labradoodle for search and rescue. So we started training at 10 weeks old. When she was six months old, she was a bully stick chewer, and she just kept swallowing the last inch or two, and one day she would vomit it up and it would stress me out. And so I would constantly be on her trying to catch it before she did it, putting my hand down her throat to pull it out.
But one day she swallowed a three inch piece and it was a real scary incident because she ended up getting a stomach blockage from it. A temporary one, luckily. We went to the ER and she had IV bags. I didn't want — there was a couple options the vet gave me and I was just adamant that it was a bully stick. He wasn't sure a hundred percent sure, but he thought it was because of the way it appeared on the x-ray it looks more like a natural object versus something that’s synthetic that shows up better on an x-ray.
So we did two IV bags, and we thought if we moistened things up enough, she would pass it softer. And what ended up happening the next day is, I was with her 24/7. Didn't leave her side, because it was a risk that we did that she did pass it, but it came out in full tact. It was a three and a half inch piece that was still hard as a rock. And I had to put coconut butter around her rectal area while she was trying to get it out. It was stuck for over a minute.
It was very weird. And it was scary too. But you, you know, I had the knowledge enough to know, do not pull the bully stick out and help her get it out that way because I could have damaged her rectum. So this isn't something I would recommend for just anybody to do because I had to let her do it. And if she went into distress, I would have obviously rushed her to the emergency. But she got it out. No damage was done.
And that was when I decided she can't chew bully sticks without a holder on them. And I wanted to make something that I felt was safe enough for my dog to use. And once we worked on this for about a year, we got it out to market. I was able to share it with everyone else.
Annie:
So, I mean, was your first step to look at bully stick holders that were already available, and also is product design your normal line of work?
Vaso:
No, actually, it's not. I worked for the Department of corrections full-time and then I did search and rescue. So product development was not my first line, and there was not a holder out there on the market yet. There was one that was on Kickstarter that I did not like the design, because it had multiple moving parts. They did change it to have two moving parts now, but it was like a five or six part product, and it's made of plastic. It's not a natural rubber material. So I just didn't feel comfortable with that.
I enlisted the help of a large group of dog experts that are on the search and rescue team. And some are schutzhund titled trainers. And we all worked together at the tail end of this. I started design and then when we were getting into prototyping, I would have them test it on their dogs. So I had, luckily for me, I was fortunate enough to have a large group of dogs available for testing.
But yeah, this changed my life completely. I'm now not working for corrections, and this is what I do full-time, and I have two other products I'm working on to bring to the market soon.
Annie:
Oh, well, I'd love to hear about the other products. So what was the process like, then figuring out how to get this done? How do you just come up with an idea of a product or then get it made?
Vaso:
It was not easy. I went through the first CAD designer, so I had to find a CAD designer. I did everything on my own. There was a place you can go to called Invent Help, and you could give them like 70, $80,000 and they'll do your whole project start to finish. But that wasn't an option for me.
So I went on Google, started researching what I was trying to do. And I found the first CAD designer kept changing my design and kept saying, you can't do it this way. You can't mold it, not with rubber. So every time he changed it, it cost me at least a thousand or $1,500. And he would send me a prototype after it was changed and it just didn't work. So by the time I got to my third CAD designer, I finally found someone that literally was like, well, let's just try it.
Oh, and I skipped a part. I went to visit with my dad, who's a military vet, he's a veteran, he's disabled. And he's just a great hands-on, can build anything kind of guy. And we sat on the kitchen table and just cut up rubber. He had the strength to cut it, I didn't. And I kept saying, I want it this way. And so we got a wheel and that was, I forgot what it was, but it was a round piece of rubber that he had and we were stuffing it with stuff and we tried to create a way to twist a bully, stick in or push it in so you couldn't get it out. And that's how we came up with this design in his kitchen, just cutting rubber up.
And, and then once we figured it out and glued it together, we sent the design to the final CAD designer that was willing to give it a try. And it worked. We started with two pieces molded together and worked our way to the one piece, which is what my total goal was to have it one solid piece of rubber.
Annie:
And how many have you, have you sold at this point?
Vaso:
Oh gosh. I honestly can't keep track anymore because we haven't finished my accounting, but I'd say I'm getting close to maybe a hundred thousand.
Annie:
And are they mostly sold online or small places like our place, or Petco? Where can people get them?
Vaso:
We are available in pet stores, not large pet stores yet. But I haven't ruled that out, but that's not my goal. I'm trying to keep the quality of the product intact. And because of the quality, it's not cheap to make. These are not like you know, if I was to go in, in huge large production, I went down that path and I opted out because they start putting things in your product that's not all natural to make them more, faster and cheaper so that you can sell it for less and have a higher profit margin and reduce the price more for those discount pet stores, the larger ones.
So I haven't been willing to do that. And so I'm very careful. When I have a pet store carry this, I have them sign a contract that they won't sell below the MSRP, because I don't want them to undersell other pet stores. But at the same time, I don't want the product to get discounted below what it's costing, and then end up having to pay less to make it, which is in the long haul what I'm trying to avoid.
So I'm sticking with all natural rubber. I have it tested every year at chemo labs in New York for toxins, and it passes every year. So, so far so good. But yeah, it's only available in boutique pet stores so far, for that reason.
Annie:
Since you started this, I'm guessing other products have come on the market. How do they compare?
Vaso:
Oh, okay. So the other products — there's a couple of them that I'm aware of that are really just, their goal is just bully stick holder. Like, well, mine has multi-functions, but they're both not one solid piece. They both have either a pin that you push through a bully stick, so you have to drill a hole through a bully stick. And that one is made out of a nylon plastic, I believe.
There's been dogs that have pulled the pin out by just pulling up on the bully stick and breaking it, cause it's a thin pin. It's probably a quarter of an inch thick. I wouldn't use that on my dog personally. but you know, I think it works for dogs that are not as strong chewers or aggressive.
And then there is the other one that's very large. It's called a Bully Buddy. It's about three or four times bigger than the Bully Grip. I consider it very heavy, and it has a screw. It's a hard plastic and it has a screw in a piece of plastic on the side. And that one, I wouldn't want my dog chewing on either because it's not lab tested. It's very heavy and it's hard plastic.
So I've had clients or customers reach me later on after they'd use that for a while and say, Oh my gosh, your Bully Grip doesn't scratch my floor. And doesn't make a large clang every time it hits the floor. And it's just, it's not — I guess when a dog chews on it, little pieces of shards come off of it. That's what I've heard. I have not used it. I've seen videos of it and pictures of it, but I have not personally used it.
Annie:
Huh. Yeah, I've seen the Bully Grip. I'm sorry, the Bully Buddy. Yeah. And it's definitely not as elegant as your solution. It's definitely much clunkier, more pieces. The other one that has the pin I actually think that was made by Kirby who I interviewed on the podcast, but I'm not sure it's actually being produced right now.
Vaso:
Yeah, actually he has it on the market now.
Annie:
What is it called? The ever everlasting or something like that?
Vaso:
I think it's called, I think he changed the name to the safety chew.
Annie:
Oh Safety Chew. Yeah. That one was, it seemed more streamlined than the bully grip. But yeah, I could see the still does have like a moving piece in the problem that you have to drill a hole and a bully stick, which complicates things. And then there's then there's one, there's the Quizzle by West paw or some other similar toys that you can kind of stick a bully stick into. Right. Have you seen those kinds? More like sleeves.
Vaso:
Yeah. It does cover most of the bully stick. And your dog doesn't get to just chew down. I've heard that the dog sometimes will have to chew part of the Quizzle apart to get to the bully stick. Cause it's just thinner where it's wrapped around it. But again, I haven't used that, but I have seen pictures and just read reviews and different video of that as well. But yeah.
Annie:
And then there's one called, let me see Bennet bone, have you seen that one?
Vaso:
Yeah. That's more of a chew toy. I’ve used that one before and honestly, the bully sticks slips in and slips out. I don't really consider it — it's a flavored. It looks like a bone and to me it's more like a chew toy in itself. A dog can chew on it. It's flavored, but it has the center piece and it slips in, but it slips out very, very easily. In my opinion.
Annie:
Yeah. The locking mechanism of yours is very cool. You put it in, you twist it. And the thing really stays in there in a way that I can't imagine a dog would be able to get it out. And there must be deaths every year from people actually — I mean, not people. There must be dog deaths every year from dogs swallowing bully sticks.
Vaso:
Yeah. Or health hazards for sure. And vet bills. I luckily — you know, most people, hopefully if they see their dog is displaying symptoms, and when they get a stomach blockage, the symptoms are pretty obvious. Now a choking hazard on the other hand could cause a pretty quick death. And if you can't get that, wedge that bully stick out of their throat, it absolutely has caused deaths, which just makes me sad even thinking about it.
I won't even give my dog any type of chew stick without having a holder around it now. Because just as part of my family, and her life is that important to me. So I made the three size holders for that reason. We use different chew sticks, I get her veggie sticks and sometimes I have to stick those in the large size holder. I'm going to try to work on a larger one down the road for the yak chews. Cause I've had a lot of interest in that. But it's gonna require a lot of rubber because those are pretty wide.
Annie:
We used to carry a product called the Bone head that was made for yak chews that was a little bit like yours. And then it sort of was a ring that sits around the thing. But it required using a screwdriver to screw a plastic screw to tighten around to the yak chew. And the screw would get stripped. Again, it wasn't as elegant as your solution.
Vaso:
We try to keep it simple because, and mainly one piece for the dog and what that means is a little more work for the human, but more safe for the dog. And when I say a little bit more work, when you get down to the nub and you've got that one inch piece stuck in the Bully Grip, if you're using the right sized bully stick, it's going to be stuck in there.
We had to come up with a solution to how to get that piece out without it being a struggle for the human, for us. And we came up with something pretty cool. And I'm going to talk to my manufacturer about making, selling the Bully Grip down the road with a removal tool. But it's basically, if you just have a household screw, I don't know if you've tried this, but it has to be flat at the top and flat at the bottom.
So you take the Bully Grip and you run it under the sink just really quick, just to run water on top of it, so that the bully stick gets wet that's sitting in there. And then you set the Bully Grip on top of the screw that's just sitting on a flat surface with the back touching the surface and you know, the top knot. And you set the bully grip on it, where the screw touches the bully stick the back of the nub and you push down with your wrists and it pushes up that little nub to where it's almost completely out. And then you just wiggle it out with your fingers.
So it I'll send you a video. It’s super easy.
Annie:
[laughing] I think I need a visual here.
Vaso:
It’s so hard to describe. I'll send you a video of it. We made one and we put it actually up on our social media. I'm going to have to put it on the website though, for sure, because it does save your fingers.
Annie:
So is that one of the other products that you're working on?
Vaso:
So the biggest thing for me is that dental health is one of the biggest things for dogs, and it's huge, huge for humans. Obviously it's very important for them as well. And that's why bully sticks are great. But they're not enough. You should brush your dog's teeth. And most people just don't have the time to do that.
So I created this thing called a Bully Brusher, and it's the only dog product on the market that's a dog toy that has bristles, real true nylon bristles on two sides. And they're also flavored. This one is made of silicone cause it's more tear resistant. It's all natural silicone. We made about 2000 of them for testing. And we found that the dogs are chewing them and it's helping their teeth, but it's not strong enough.
So I had to pull it because when I bring this to the market, I want it to last at least six to eight weeks. And, because just like toothbrushes, you can't keep them permanently and you can't expect it to last like six months to a year, especially if it's something that's brushing their teeth and they're really chewing down on it. But yeah.
So we're back to trying to work on the strength of the product itself and not compromise the fact that it's a natural ingredient. That's the goal. So it's a lot of work, but that's what's going to be hopefully next.
Annie:
And what will the product be called? Do you know yet?
Vaso:
The bully brusher.
Annie:
Okay. Yeah. So this is now your full-time full-time thing, innovative products for dogs?
Vaso:
Yeah. Yes. Yes. And it's like the greatest thing I've ever done. I just absolutely love it. I love working with dogs. I just, they're just so great. And they're always so happy and they love you back.
Annie:
Aw, that's true. That's true. And there's certainly more and more sort of innovative products on the market, which is exciting.
Vaso:
Yeah. It's helping improve the lives of all of us, the dogs and us at the same time.
Annie:
Well, thanks so much for taking the time to talk. I hope this gets people interested in your product, which I really believe in. I recommend it all the time. I'm glad to be carrying it in our shop.
Vaso:
Thank you. We appreciate it very much. Yeah.
[Outro and music]
