01 MarEpisode 123 | A conversation with Terra Newell (former groomer, owner of a mini Aussie) about killing her stepfather… and dogs
We're posting this as a bonus episode because it isn't really about dog training... but it's something we think you will want to listen to if you love dogs and empathize with people who love them. If you've heard the podcast Dirty John, or seen the dramatization on TV, also called Dirty John, you'll know that it's a story that is... complicated. The hero of the real-life true-crime story is Terra Newell, a soft-spoken dog groomer who was attacked by her sociopath stepfather one night when she and her dog were coming home from a day working at a shelter. Annie and Terra talk about her life with pets, the traumatic experience she and her dog experienced, how her dog impacted her recovery, and more. You can find Terra on Instagram at @terranewell.
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Mentioned in this episode:
Don't Shoot The Dog by Karen Pryor
Transcript:
Annie:
So I'm posting this as a bonus episode because it's not really about dog training, but it is about a pretty incredible and traumatic experience that a woman who is a huge dog lover had with her dog. And I explain it in this conversation, which I recorded live on Instagram, why I wanted to talk to Terra Newell, who I first learned about from the podcast Dirty John. She is also portrayed in the dramatization of the story Dirty John, in the TV show called Dirty John.
I think I say this in the conversation, but there's so many things to talk about and think about that are brought up in Dirty John. But of course, with my dog training point of view, all I could think was this woman should become a dog trainer! [laughs] Anyway, I don't think that is part of Terra Newell's life plan, but I was happy that she agreed to talk to me.
You can find Terra on Instagram @terranewell. I also just wanted to mention that my recording settings were a little off for the first minute of this conversation, but then they were fixed. So you will hear a transition about a minute in.
Terra:
I had to put you on mute on my computer.
Annie:
Yeah, I'm putting you on mute here too so I only have to record in one in one place, but I am psyched to get to talk to you, and what a beautiful dog. So is he a mini Aussie?
Terra:
Yeah, he's a mini Aussie. He's technically known for the AKC as a North American shepherd now, because the mini Aussies are considered their own breed because they had to use a Chihuahua or like the smallest of the smallest Aussie to kind of try to breed that breed.
Annie:
What made you decide to get that, or to get him?
Terra:
So I was at a pet store, working there, and I was with this guy, in a relationship, and he was obsessed with Aussies. And I was just like, okay, I kind of want a papillon because they have the butterfly ears, and I really liked that, and then I was like, well, they’re kind of cool.
So a couple months went by. This one dog came in and it was just like the most gorgeous dog I've ever seen. And then I was like, I need him. I need him in my life. And I asked the owner for a discount and the owner's like, no, that dog's going to sell right away. You can't have a discount. And I went home and I found the money and I came back and I put a deposit on him.
Annie:
You were just like, that's my dog!
Terra:
Uh huh!
Annie:
So let's back up a little bit. So for those of you who are joining us live, we are on Instagram. I just thought it'd be fun, cause I know Terra has lots of fans, to talk live on Instagram, but I am recording this for School for the Dogs Podcast. Which, like I told you, Terra, is about dog training, but I really love talking to people who have kind of unusual stories about their dogs and their relationships with their dogs.
I first encountered you through the Dirty John podcast, and then I watched the TV show. And while I had many thoughts about it and many, many things, I probably unlike most people was like, the dog! I need to know more about the dog! And I also thought I wanted to know more about you and your relationship with your dog, because it struck me as — I actually had the thought of like, wow, she would be a really great dog trainer, I bet she doesn't even know it yet.
[laughing]
So, why don't we go a little bit into your background with dogs in general. And then of course you can share, in whatever, I guess, relatively succinct way you want to, share about your incredible story. Your life story and your story with Cash.
But yeah. Why don't you tell me about your sort of early interest in dogs and how you ended up, I believe, you were working as a dog groomer, right?
Terra:
Yea, so I actually worked at a pet store for a little bit.
Annie:
And you’re in Southern California, right?
Terra:
Yes. But you know, pet stores… mixed feelings about those, especially where the dogs were coming from. Not so happy about that.
Annie:
When, when did you start working there? Were you in school?
Terra:
I was a year out of high school. So it would've been the beginning of my sophomore year of college. So I decided to work there because I moved back from Boulder, Colorado, and Colorado didn't work out for me. And since I was that kid that was always in the dog encyclopedia book. I was the kid that was trying to walk everyone's dogs and start a dog walking business when I was younger.
And I just really had a love of the animals. I had ducks, I had rats. I've had snakes. I had anything I could get my hands on. Let's just say, and it was just, animals were my unconditional love. So any trauma that I went through, I literally just had my dogs there, and they’ve been my safe haven and my, you know, they make me normal and have empathy.
And then, so I started working at the pet store. I was there for probably three years, and then I started just kind of convincing everyone to not get that dog in the window.
[laughing]
I would just ask them questions. I would be like, okay, so you're getting a Husky. Do you have a yard for it? Do you know about this breed? Are you an experienced dog owner? I would just ask them questions and make sure that the dog was going to a good home. So that's something that I did, but it didn't really work out with —
Annie:
Yeah, your boss probably wasn't that interested in your — [laughing]
Terra:
Yeah, well, before, I was one of the top dog-selling people because I knew so much about dogs, and just my love for dogs would just sell the dogs. Because I would be like, Oh, this dog's amazing because it’s a papillon, butterfly ears, these dogs are French, and I would just go on and on about the dogs that I would love. And I'd be like, they're super intelligent also, you know?
Then I ended up working at a dog kennel, Tima canines in Newport beach and they were so amazing there. So amazing. That was my favorite job ever, just because it was a dog training facility, and I really loved keeping up with the training, but I started to work under a groomer there named Tai. And she just let me wash all the dogs for her, and it was just my love and joy. And I got really sad when I had to go because I ended up moving to Vegas with my boyfriend at that time. I literally cried when I gave them my notice. I loved that job so much.
So I came to Vegas, started doing dog grooming over there, and then I ended up moving back from Vegas and then coming to a dog kennel and then doing the grooming.
Annie:
How did you learn to do grooming?
Terra:
So I went to school for it. It's ABC dog grooming school. They also have ABC dog training school, and so on.
Annie:
Oh, I've heard of ABC. I didn't know it was the same ABC.
Terra:
Yeah. So I went through them, they set me up with an mentorship, and then I did my hours through them, but I had so much experience before.
Annie:
Are you still doing any grooming then?
Terra:
Not unless it's my sister's Pomeranian. I love Pomeranian cuts, so I will do a Pomeranian cut every once in a while.
Annie:
So, Cash came into your life. When, when was that exactly, then?
Terra:
It was 2011 or 12.
Annie:
Okay. And you know, what's so interesting about what you said, like dogs were your savior is one thing about your story, which I know anyone who's tuning in who doesn't know the nitty gritty of it, we haven't gotten there yet. I think there are a lot of people who deal with — codependents who, like myself, who connect with dogs. Have, if you thought about that at all?
Terra:
Oh, a hundred percent. I'm so connected to my dogs.
Annie:
And it's both… I actually, there's a wonderful book that I learned so much from about codependence and narcissism. It's called The Human Magnet Syndrome. And I'd read a lot about codependence and narcissism, kind of separately, just as it had to do with my own life. But this book really kind of talks about how they’re two sides of the same coin. Which I felt I strongly saw in the story of of your mom, especially.
But actually, this book, I found it through a vet who was writing a blog about co-dependence and how people who work with animals deal with a lot of co-dependence themselves and also co-dependence and in their clients.
Anyway, let's talk about how your story with Cash came to such an apex. [laughs]
Terra:
Okay. So my mom married a psychopath, not knowing that he was a psychopath.
Annie:
A true psychopath.
Terra:
Yes. I'm not saying this just because — like, he checked all the boxes for a psychopath. Let's just say that. And he was a serial perpetrator. He went after so many women, and she wasn't the only one. He was just — she was just the only one that he got caught with. Well, he got caught in other things, but he got caught trying to kill me. Let's say that.
Annie:
Indeed!
Terra:
Yeah. My mom left him. And then he ended up coming after her one night, but she was unavailable. My sister actually saw him and then chased him down in her car. So the next day he came to my house. And I, I had a warning from my sister, and then I was just so preoccupied because I was going to the Jason Aldean concert that night.
I came in through the gate. I saw this guy with a tire iron. And I looked over, because Cash started barking and growling at him. And I kind of —
Annie:
Now — Just to pause for a second. Had he ever had he ever made you feel uncomfortable before around Cash or having to do with Cash? Or no.
Terra:
No, not really. We’d met one time. I stayed at my mom's place. And it was a bad experience because I ended up leaving with my dogs. Well, I stayed there twice. And the first time it was okay, but the dogs were very anxious. I had a border Collie, and then I had a cavalier King Charles spaniel. Not the same cavalier that I have now, but I had that cavalier and then Cash. And all of them were just anxious and they had the runs. And so that was a lot of fun.
I don't know if that had anything to do with the energy with John. Probably because it was tense. And you know, dogs pick up on energy, and if something's anxious or, you know, it could have even been from travel. So many things why the dogs could have had runny stool.
So that was their interaction. Then my mom wanted to take the dogs on a walk one night, and I was like, okay, like, you could take the dogs on a walk if it's that important to you. And she took the dogs on a walk and she said that they were the worst dogs ever, that they were trying to go everywhere.
I have a border Collie and an Australian shepherd. And if you know those dogs; well, first of all, they're very smart, but they're easily trainable. So if this person was a dog person, he would know how to put my dog back in line, you know? And my dogs don't act crazy when I walk them. So I was just like, Hmm, that's a little strange being home. And it made it seem like I was the bad dog owner, which I was like..
Annie:
Was she walking him with John?
Terra:
Yes.
Annie:
Okay. And they made you feel like you did something wrong that your dogs weren't perfect.
Terra:
Yes. And I was like, okay, whatever mom, like brushed it under the rug. And those were really the only interactions that Cash and my other dogs had with him.
Annie:
Mhmm. So the moral is if your dogs have the runs, [laughs] your mom might be with a psychopath.
Terra:
John also — Okay, John was trying to pet them, and then Cash did this thing with his head where he didn't want to see him. So that was weird to me, because Cash goes up to people and he'll literally lay on them and just nudge his head against them. So when his head is flailing, like he doesn't want to like have him pet his neck or anything. That's really weird to me.
Annie:
I'm always skeptical when people talk about energy with dogs that seems like this invisible thing. But I do believe that there might be subtle bits of body language that dogs can pick up on, especially for someone who, you know, is a real true psychopath.
Terra:
Well like Cash picked up on that day when he was there to attack me. And I think it was just John's intentions with me. Like, John's intentions with me when I came to visit my mom wasn’t to hurt me that time. It was to just isolate me. And then his intentions when he came to attack me was to kill me. So, I think my dog knows that survival instinct, you know, and it kicks in is like, okay, when is this guy a threat? Is he a threat now? Or is he a threat when he's trying to kill my mom and take away my mom's life? And then my mom's not going to be able to feed me anything, you know?
Annie:
Oh yeah. Someone's asking, was Cash ever reactive in other situations? Good question.
Terra:
Not really. I mean, after the attack, there's been people that he's just been, not so great with.
Annie:
Let's talk about the details then of exactly what happened. So you were in the parking lot, right?
Terra:
Yes. I was in the parking lot. I pulled in Cash, saw him and I thought it was just a homeless guy with a tire iron. And I told Cash to knock it off. He stopped barking immediately because I told him and I gave him that command.
So I pulled into my spot. I got Cash out of the back seat. And then when I got around to my license plate, I parked forward into the spot. He grabbed me by the waist and then looked me in the eyes and said, do you remember me? And I immediately tried to flee away from that situation. I immediately dropped Cash's leash right away so that Cash could fend for himself. And I put my arm up with my purse, and I just really protected my heart and my vital organs by doing that.
And I just tried to run and get away, but I wasn't able to get away. Then I just tried to push him away from me, but I wasn't able to do that. He tried to cover my mouth because I was screaming. I bit him as hard as I could, he let go because that hurt.
Annie:
Where was Cash during this time?
Terra:
So like, I wasn't aware. I think at this time Cash was already attacking his ankles.
Annie:
You must've been worried about Cash then at the same time?
Terra:
To be honest, well, like it happened so quickly where I'm like, I didn't even think about Cash, to be honest. My initial instinct was to let go of Cash's leash and let him run. So I was hoping Cash was running, and running away. Because that is my baby. If he got my baby, I would be done. I would be like, just kill me, kill me. I'm okay with that.
So yes, he tried to keep attacking me. Cash was just attacking his ankles. I kept getting hit. I got stabbed at that point, but I didn't know I was getting stabbed because he had the knife in a Del Taco bag. So I ended up like getting away from him somehow, but I ended up on my back and then he was on top of me with his, like on his knees, just trying to will at me with the knife.
And at this, the knife is visible. And since I work at the dog kennel, I wore rain boots every day because I hosed down the yards and stuff. So I had that as a factor in my part, and I just started kicking and I started blocking the knife. As it came down on me, I kicked his forearms, and then it immediately landed on my right hand side into the ice picks position, and it was the perfect position to pick it up. I literally just did not give it a second thought, just picked it up right when it landed and started wailing back on him.
I guess Cash was still attacking him at this time too. But I, it's so like tunnel vision where I didn't even see Cash this whole time. Like I didn't see Cash until after anything. So I ended up stabbing him, and I thought I stabbed him in the chest, but I stabbed him in the back because I just, you know, sometimes the brain doesn't connect the dots when you're in a trauma.
Annie:
And well, you didn't have a lot of stabbing experience either, I’m sure!
Terra:
Well, I’ve never stabbed anything! So, you know, I was overthrowing it and I got him in his back. I guess I got him 13 times, and then the last time was in the head, and I actually did give thought to this. Cause I watch a lot of Walking Dead. I held his head as he started to lose life and lose energy. And I stabbed him once in like the forehead and then the last one was in the eye because I was like, well, that's a softest point of entry to the brain. So, and I don't want him to get up and get me again, because you watch so many horror movies where they just keep getting up and you're like, wait —
Annie:
And probably you knew he had a gun too. I mean it’s really lucky that he didn't have a gun.
Terra:
No, he tried to get a gun, he couldn't get one. Because of his parole and all that, or not parole, but him being in jail before and all that.
Annie:
God. Wow. So you were rushed to the hospital with your dog, right?
Terra:
So I wasn't rushed.
Annie:
[laughs] You strolled.
Terra:
Let's make that clear. I literally got down the ramp. I called my mom and I told her I'm so sorry. I think I killed your husband.
Annie:
Oh my God. Oh, God, Terra.
Terra:
Well, I felt bad, you know, and I didn't want to do that. And then I also called my ex-boyfriend at the time and I thought he blocked me because he didn't have service. And so I freaked out on him for a little bit.
Annie:
This was all before calling 911?
Terra:
Oh, I didn't call 911. And that was my last thought, to be honest. My thought was let me call all my family members and make sure they’re ok. Oh, well, and then also there was like 20 people that called 911.
Annie:
Right, cause people were there.
Terra:
Watched it happen from their balconies. So 911 was already on their way. And they were like almost there, like the ambulances just got there. When I, I think I called my mom or something and they arrived. And so I knew, like I didn't have to make that call, but to be honest, I don't know if I have made that call in that moment. Just like, thinking about it now.
Annie:
Yeah. Well, it wasn't a situation where there was any precedent.
Terra:
Yeah. Like if anyone else got hurt, I would call my reaction would be call 911. But because like, it's me, you know, I'm not thinking — I'm in shock at point so I’m not thinking really clearly. And your brain just does what it needs to do during that time. So I called everyone that was comforting to me or anyone that — like, I needed to apologize for killing John, you know?
So I called my mom right away and then the ambulances come. They get John, they revive him and stuff, but he's like brain dead. And then they bring him to the hospital. They were going to bring me to the same or wait, not this time. So I went to Hoag and then I got to Hogue and I had like an inch deep cut on my forearm.
And they kind of just wrapped it. And then I had to be questioned for hours and hours until I was able to get stitches and stuff. And I just think how, like, I'm just really mad at how they treat victims because this was not my fault. This isn't something I asked for, but the way that they made me feel and the way that they like put me in the hospital and just questioned me. The way they did it was not the nicest.
And so that experience was traumatic itself and I was literally there for five hours at least. And then they realized that I have another stab wound.
Annie:
Oh my God. They didn't even like inspect you.
Terra:
No, no. And that's the treatment that they give to victims.
Annie:
Oh my God. Meanwhile like trying to revive your attacker.
Terra:
Right away. Yeah. So it's just like, that was traumatic to me. Very traumatic. And I just had to say something cause like, I hope any one that listens to this and if they're a cop or anything, I hope they listen and then treat the victim with empathy and patience and kindness because that's really what I needed in that circumstance.
Annie:
Yeah. Well, you know, to bring it back around to dogs and dog training you know, when a dog is, is, you know, what we call reactive, aggressive. It can seem counter intuitive, but off often they're triggered and scared and what they need more than anything else is to feel safe and comforted. But when you're in that moment, it can you know, as a person dealing with a dog like that, it can seem counterintuitive to be, you know, coddling a dog who is in an attack mode.
But there, but there you were basically in an attack mode that was completely, completely understandable.
Terra:
Yeah. See, at the dog when a dog was like that, we would try to like, be like, Oh, it's okay. It's okay. Like soothe it. And then we would try to give it food, trying to lure it to us so that it can come and have a safe environment.
Speaker 2: (05:33)
Right, right. Yeah. So that's an interesting, interesting kind of a parallel. and so I mean fortunately you, you recovered and you've, you know, now, now made a, made a a kind of career about helping people understand. I don't know. How, how would you describe your, your current career? How does Cash fit into that?
Annie:
Right, so thats an interesting kind of parallel.
So, fortunately you’ve recovered, and now made a kind of career about helping people understand — well I don’t know, how would you describe your current career and how does Cash fit into that?
Terra:
So I'm a life coach. And well, I think it's really funny that you ask, how does Cash fit into that? I've actually had a few people that are in the animal industry, and I've had to explain to them, relationship is like a relationship with a dog. Sometimes you need to train people like you train dogs. [laughs]
And I was telling her, I was like, when you tell a dog, no, do you tell a dog, no and you walk away and that's it? Or do you keep telling that dog note over and over again? And she's like, well, you tell the dog no once. And then you're done.
Annie:
Ideally. Right.
Terra:
And so that's what you do with your boundaries. If someone doesn't respect your no, it's no once. And then you drop it. If they bring it up again, that person doesn't really serve your energy. Or you have to figure out, you have to kind of use the broken record method with them, which you don't use with dogs, you know, and you have to tell them over and over again.
Annie:
Yeah. That's such a true, true lesson with no. I always use my neighbor as an example, every day, she's yelling to her dog. Like, no, no bark, no bark, no bark. And everyday the dog barks. And I want to be like, you know, if “no” was going to work, it would've worked by now. Now this is just your relationship, your relationship is you say no to your dog, your dog barks. And this is what you have.
Terra:
Yeah. So like, you know, with dogs, with eating. My dogs are kind of very possessive, and one of them guards the food and she'll go back and forth to go to both bowls. I literally have to, I'll tell her no once. And if she doesn't listen, then I literally have to go over there and establish that No. And like, I'll just like walk up if she starts to come over and go towards Cash’s bowl and then I just stand and I just stare. And I just stand my ground.
Annie:
You make it very clear.
Terra:
Standing your boundaries! You make it very clear that she's not going to get away with this.
Annie:
You might be interested in reading the book, if you haven't called Don't Shoot the Dog by Karen Pryor. It's really about using positive reinforcement and sort of using ideas that are rooted in the science of behavior with people. I's called, don't shoot the dog, but it's actually not really about dogs.
But yeah, it's, it's interesting that that, you know, boundaries is certainly something that we think about a lot with dogs. And a lot of the times it's like setting physical boundaries. Like managing the environment in order to get the behaviors that we want right.
Now, how did Cash do or how has he been? You said he, he was a little bit traumatized from the experience, how did that express itself?
Terra:
Oh yeah. So when I was in the hospital in the ICU, Cash was there with me because he is an ESA dog and I had my doctor's notes and legally they had to let him go with me. And he's honestly — we never did good citizen training or anything, but because I worked at the dog kennel for so long, like I knew the rules of a service dog and like the ESA and a therapy dog, like I knew all the rules of like what aligns with what?
So he knows, like he can't do certain things. Like if food drops on the floor, he's not allowed to get it. You know, he's not allowed to jump on people. He's not allowed to do this and that, you know? And so he was very well behaved when I was there, but when my nephew went to go hug him — and, he's been with my nephew since he was a puppy and my nephew was two years old. So they kind of like grew up in their baby stages together, you know.
And he bit my nephew.
Annie:
At the hospital.
Terra:
At the hospital, and he's never done that. And my nephew is, you know, not a threat to him whatsoever. But because he was so shaken up and stuff he bit my nephew. And then luckily my friend came and she's a dog trainer. She was at the hospital and she just took him and like, got him walking to release that energy because when dogs get aggressive sometimes you really got to move around that energy so that they kind of work it out themselves.
So she just kind of had him, started walking and like working out that energy, how he felt, and then that helped him. And then he also went and saw some of the cancer patients there and he like visited with them and like gave them love and stuff.
Annie:
Aw, while you were at the hospital.
Terra:
Yeah.
Annie:
Look at that. He was busy doing good!
Terra:
Right? He's truly like, when people like are like, Oh, like a service dog, a therapy dog, like you can't tell if he is or not. Like you’d think he was a service dog if you were watching his actions, but he's not a service dog, quote unquote.
Annie:
Well, I have like issues with the whole service dog designation only because I think like, there are a lot of dogs who are well enough behaved to be service dogs. And there should probably be more service dogs out there. But that we label service dogs based on the disabilities of the person that owns the dog rather than looking at the abilities of the actual dog. And it sounds like Cash has those abilities, you know?
Terra:
Yeah. Well, I've also seen some people with quote unquote, service dogs, and then their dogs have dreads and stuff. And I'm like, do you know, one of the rules is like, your dog has to be clean when he's working?
[laughing]
Annie:
Right. Right. Or a lot of people have, you know, there are plenty of people who have service dogs who, you know, their dog might be able to do whatever the service is and is legit because the person has a legitimate disability, but that doesn't mean the dog is necessarily able to be in crowded environments, or to travel or like be around people or do all the things that — dogs should be very well socialized if it's going to be a service dog. But because all the focus of whether or not a dog is truly a service dog has to do with the person's disability more than has to do with the dogs training,it can become tricky.
Have you found that he's different around men, or different in parking lots or?
Terra:
Not parking lots. I haven't noticed that at all. Just around certain men. Like if there's someone that he feels is a little bit off, he's gonna bark at him and tell him to go away. But if he feels that this person's not a threat, he's gonna go up to them and sit on their feet.
Annie:
Is that different than how things were before the attack?
Terra:
Okay. So before he wasn't as protective, but now he is a bit more. But I think we've worked through a good amount of his trauma too, because dogs carry it. Dogs, they get traumatized and you have to work through things. He still has things where he does lick-fits right now.
Annie:
Lick fits?
Terra:
Lick fits. But I really think that's just like Aussies and COVID, and not being able to go to the dog park every day.
Annie:
He'll just lick you like, like mad? Or he’ll lick himself?
Terra:
Yeah, they’ll lick themselves. Aussies, since they're so smart, they have to have a lot of activity or they have to have their job to do. If they don't have their job, then they get super bored and they start to deteriorate their selves. And that's why I don't recommend for a lot of people to have Australian shepherds because you really have to work those dogs. They’r working dogs.
Annie:
Yeah. It is a lot of work. So do you see yourself doing anything with dogs in the future career-wise or coaching wise?
Terra:
To be honest, not really. I used to want to be a dog broker and find people they're perfect dog. I feel like that's really hard to do because like some people, they get the dog and then, you know, having a puppy is really hard. So they might not think it’s the perfect dog right now, but like two years down the line, they're like, Oh my gosh, this dog was the perfect fit for our family and stuff. Like I got one of my friends in Australian shepherd and let's just say, we stopped being friends for a little bit.
[laughing]
Well, first of all, I got the dog for him. And it was a gorgeous Australian shepherd, tri-color, but I may have been a bit bossy or just like, know it all with like dogs, because, you know, that was what I used to do. So I probably told them too much to do with the dog. And so that kind of backfired. So I’m like, the dog broker ship is not really something that I want anymore.
They love their dog. We're great now. And they're like, Terra, you really know how to pick out dogs. And I'm like, yes.
Annie:
Aww. Yeah. I mean, it's interesting. I don't know people who do that, but I do think especially like it seems to me like there’s a niche waiting to be filled of someone who can, I mean, I guess we we've done this on occasion for clients, but someone who can like go to a breeder and vet which are the good breeders. Or someone who can go to a shelter and pick out like this dog would be a good fit for you.
I don't know what you, I guess dog broker maybe is what you call that person.
Terra:
Yeah. I mean, I used to know a really big dog broker, but they took dogs from puppy mills and that's not the kind of dog broker I want to be. I want to be it like an individual one that picks out the perfect dog for your family.
Annie:
Well, you must know a lot more about puppy mills than your average person. Unfortunately, from working at the pet stores.
Terra:
Oh yeah, no, I actually did like not a conference call, but a zoom call with one of the people that found us on Embark and said that she is a relative of Cash’s.
Annie:
That's funny. I just did that for my dog. And someone reached out that they're a cousin of my dog. Yeah. Hey Cash! He's so cute.
Terra:
Thank you. But it's so funny. I told her a lot about where they came from stuff, because she rescued her dog. So she had no idea where he came from. And I was like, Oh, I got everything! I became friends with one of the girls that work there so that I would call her and like get information from her. Like what's going on.
Annie:
So he came from a puppy mill. And you actually know about the puppy mill that he came from?
Terra:
So he came from a breeder quote unquote. I don't know if it was really. It was Cheryl Tieds in Nebraska, but she also, I noticed she bred Papillons too. And then there are some other dogs that I noticed came from her too. So like, I didn't think that she was breeding only Aussies. Which a good breeder would only breed the dogs that they know. And they would keep an eye on them, make sure they're in good health, make sure they're not breeding a deaf Aussie or a blind Aussie. Also if they have the MDR1 one gene, they also try not to breed that into the dogs.
Annie:
Well, I mean, I'm like skeptical of anyone who breeds a dog and then sells it to a pet shop.
Terra:
Oh yeah. Well, unless you have like a really overflow of puppies and you're like, I don't know what to do with them. You know, I'm like maybe a pet store? But just the people that would go in there. A lot of them would come in drunk from dinner and,
Annie:
Oh my God. Yeah. I've heard that’s a thing! Like drunk puppy buying.
Terra:
And then it's so sad because a lot of them would get returned. And we wouldn't do refunds. And so like, we would do refunds if the dog had a congenital disease or
Annie:
Like lemon laws, they call it, right.
Terra:
Yeah. But like we wouldn't give refunds and it was just so whole horrible to see these people in there. People would do it when they weren't drunk too, they would get the dogs and then return them because they're like, I can't handle this. I'm like, well, you can't handle a kid.
[laughing]
Annie:
There's an interesting book called The Dog Merchants that's all about kind of the underground world of pet shops and dog breeding. And I actually think, you know, I think a good dog breeder is an amazing thing because they're creating these animals that need to be able to live in our worlds. And, it's no small thing to make a healthy well adjusted dog.
He is so cute. Look at that guy. Oh my goodness.
As an emotional support animal, do you feel like he's been part of your recovery?
Terra:
Oh, absolutely. Because I gotta be honest. There was a time where I was super triggered and I don't think I treated Cash the best way, and that really hurt me because I love him with all my heart and my soul. And that really kind of prompted me to get better so that I could have my dog being in the best environment possible.
Annie:
You felt like you weren't, you weren't giving him enough attention, enough care?
Terra:
Just like, well, I would have like these triggers and then if like he had an accident, I would lose my sh– my mind. Like I wouldn't on him, you know, but I would just be screaming. I would be so emotional, I'd be crying. And I wouldn't know how to like deal with, you know, it's dog poop. Where before I would like to pick it up and it would be fine.
So I really had to get better and work on my PTSD with that, because it's just not healthy coming in, seeing an accident from when he had an upset stomach or something, and then flipping out, you know? Not a healthy way to deal with things. And he was scared, he would shake, he would go into the other room and I just like, but I couldn't stop myself from having those triggers, if that makes sense.
And it pushed me to do a lot of work on myself, get healing and get to the point where, like now I see that and I’m “Oh, are you feeling bad? Let me take care of you.” You know?
Annie:
Right. You feel more yourself.
Terra:
Yeah. And so I think that PTSD, like luckily Cash knows when to go away from me and to leave me alone. But a lot of dogs don't know that, you know. And so that was a really big journey. And I'm so happy to be at the other end of that at least.
Annie:
Does your mom have a dog?
Terra:
She had two. But she gave — my mom travels a lot for business and stuff. And she had an English cream golden with John, and
Annie:
Oh really, they had a dog together?
Terra:
Yes, they did. And I actually had her right when I got attacked, but I gave her to my mom that night. And I think that may be one of the reasons why John did come after me, too, is because I had his precious dog.
Annie:
Ahh…
Terra:
And like, love Murphy. Murphy is like such a sweetheart, such a great dog. But it was so hard having his dog. So she went back to my mom, and then this one right here, this is mine, too, but I've shared her with my mom.
Annie:
Aww. What's her name?
Terra:
Coco, she's a cavalier King, Charles spaniel
Annie:
Hi Coco giving you kisses.
Terra:
But she was with Murphy, my mom's dog. And they were like best buds. And then my mom moved and stuff. My brother took my mom's dog, but it works out really great because my brother's kids absolutely love and adore her, and they're her favorite. And so I just love that. And then I have Coco.
I actually picked out Coco because I had a cavalier for 14 years and then I went and looked for a rescue, but you can't really find that Cavalier King Charles spaniel rescue, unless you like are so lucky. And I was looking for the rescue for a year and a half and then decided like, okay, let's start looking around for breeders too, and then I asked every one that had a cavalier. Where's your dog from? Do you like the breeder? Is your dog in good health? And then that I found Monticello Cavaliers in Augusta, Georgia.
Annie:
Aw great. Yeah. Cavaliers can be prone to health problems. So you knew what questions to ask.
Terra:
My last cavalier had a congenital heart problem, but she didn't develop it until she was 11. So that was really good for the breed.
Annie:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, Terra, I think you're an inspiration and I'm so happy to get a dog centric take on your incredible life so far and to see your adorable dogs. Although I guess those listening to the podcast won't get to see them, but I can attest to how cute they are. Oh, now they're both in frame! Look at that. Aw. Do they get along?
Terra:
Oh yeah. They love each other.
Annie:
I still think you would be a really great positive reinforcement trainer if you're ever interested in doing any classes with one of them or both of them, let me know. We'd love to have you. We do virtual trainings.
Terra:
Always down for a training session. I need to re up on his training because, you know, Aussies, they're really smart. So they feel like, they don't need to do stuff that they used to do
Annie:
Well, you know, especially during lockdown, God knows how long this is going to continue, but a smarty pants dog like that, you know, they need to stay active. They need to keep doing things. So like, I think the kind of training we do, which is meant to be super fun and engaging can help tire out their brain or tire them out, like with indoor activities when you can't go for long walks and stuff.
Terra:
Oh I would love that.
Annie:
All right. Well, I'll send you some information. That'd be really fun. So thank you so much. This will be up on the podcast probably in the next week or two weeks. I will let you know. But it's great to meet you and get to talk to you. Thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it.
Terra:
It's so nice to meet you and talk to you too.
Annie:
All right. Take care.
Terra:
Thanks you too.
