22 MarEpisode 132 | Bonus: One positive-reinforcement dog trainer’s point of view on guns in America
Annie reads a satirical essay she wrote, approaching the gun control debate from the point of view of a dog trainer. With dogs, we can create antecedent arrangements to control the environment in order to keep dogs from eating our shoes. If only it were so easy. If only it were so easy keep people from shooting each other...
A FAREWELL TO FOOTWEAR: A DOG TRAINER WEIGHS IN ON THE SHOE CONTROL DEBATE by Annie Grossman
As an animal trainer by profession, I am specifically interested in shoes that get into the hands, or, rather in the mouths, of dogs. From what I witness in the homes of my clients, the deleterious use of shoes by dogs is a problem with no easy solution.
Almost daily, I hear of incidents relating to shoe carnage: people coming home to find their Uggs in pieces all over the living room floor; midnight vet runs spurred by decimated Nikes causing intestinal blockage; children arriving at school late and in tears because the goldendoodle has absconded with a sandal. The problem goes beyond mere inconvenience: At any shelter, you can find dogs who face euthanasia because of sins relating to their insatiable appetite for footwear, and vets around the country will attest to the damage (sometimes irreversible and even fatal) that dogs cause themselves because of their obsession with our shoes.
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Mentioned in this episode:
Don't Shoot the Dog by Karen Pryor
Transcript:
Annie:
So once a week for the last few weeks, I've posted things that are me reading things that are like tangentially related to dog training. Relate to the larger field of animal behavior, and/or behavior as a whole. Animal behavior being a field which, one would think, would cover the study of the human animal.
Anyway, today I'm going to read something that I actually wrote three years ago. I wrote it in the Vaselka Diner. Back when I could sit and work at a diner. Three years ago on my birthday actually, which was right after the Parkside shootings where 17 people were killed at a school in Florida by a mentally ill kid. And I was of course, very upset by this.
I really feel like people shouldn't be allowed to have guns. And I know that's like over simplifying the argument. For me, I've come to see it as, of course, kind of like a dog training problem. By the way, Poppy is right next to me now with a squeaky toy, because she knows when I start to record that's when she should play with her squeaky toy.
Anyway, I think of it as a dog training problem that relates to a dog training pitfall. The pitfall is I think we tend to get lost in trying to think about why people with guns shoot people. Of course, it's a minority of people who have guns who shoot people. I understand this. But I think the majority of people who kill people with guns have some form of mental illness or serious problems that haven't been dealt with. And on top of that, they have in one way or another gotten access to a weapon, a murderous weapon.
How does this relate to dog training? Well, often I think too much time is spent trying to guess a dog's motive. He did it because he was angry. He did it because he was stubborn. He did it because, you know, he knew what I wanted him to do, but he's feeling spiteful. He did it because he doesn't like men or he doesn't like women, or he doesn't like being in the car. He did it because he's scared or he's excited or he's this, or he's that.
And at the end of the day, we're only ever really guessing why a dog behaved in a certain way that resulted maybe in something we don't like. And there are things we can do using conditioning to try and change the way the dog was maybe feeling and ordered to try and encourage them to feel in a new way that will lead to them behaving in a new way.
But you might not have that chance until after the dog has already bit a kid in the face. And in that kind of scenario, there might not be a point to asking why the dog did it in order to try and prevent it again, because that dog is now on his way to be euthanized. It is certainly one way to stop a behavior from happening again.
That's the source of the title of the Karen Pryor book from the 1980s, Don't Shoot the Dog. Which is not a dog training book, but she talks about don't shoot the dog as you know, yes, you could get rid of the problem of the neighbor's dog barking by shooting the dog. That is certainly one way to keep a problem from a problem behavior from reoccurring.
Anyway, of course the issue of gun control is far more complicated than anything I fortunately ever have to deal with in my business. I'm pretty cynical, to be honest, about the government and about our role as voters. I think when it comes to guns, those with extreme views are best off probably moving to somewhere in the world where the gun laws match your values.
But if I could create a utopia, and last week I read from Walden Too, which is BF Skinner's idea for a utopia based on the principles of positive reinforcement rooted in classical and operant conditioning. If I could create my own world, it would be a world where there is just no option for anyone to have a gun, just no guns. Because I think we can't trust the broad public to not sometimes use guns to kill people needlessly.
I thought of this essay, which has just been gathering digital dust in my Google drive for the last few years, because of the tragic shootings in Atlanta last week. And in the news, I've heard all this debate about whether or not this should be considered a hate crime, because most of the women he killed were Asian.
And I mean, yeah, I think this crazy person probably hated Asian people and women and people who work at massage parlors. Like if you're going to go kill a bunch of people who fall into similar categories, we should assume there is hate for people in those categories.
But the fact is, as far as far as I see it, whether or not it was a hate crime, doesn't change the fact that these women are dead. Which just leaves me feeling, you know, why can't we create antecedent arrangements? Why can't we arrange an environment where this just won't happen again? It won't happen because someone is full of hate, or they just woke up on the wrong side of the bed. It won't happen for any reason because those people won't be able to access weapons that are going to result in this kind of tragic quick loss.
Now, if you've listened to this podcast for the last year, you know that I have some kind of libertarian leanings, or maybe like, I don't know, socio libertarian. I think freedom gets thrown around as a virtue of our country and our government, when in reality, I think we're more controlled than we'd like to admit. And a lot of that control is aversive control. Control based in coercion and punishment. Negative reinforcement, positive punishment, negative punishment.
And I think like some smart libertarians and some smart economists could probably get together, and some smart animal trainers, could all get together and figure out how to run a more Walden Two like society. But one place I really don't agree with the libertarian movement is where it comes to guns, because I think government can set some boundaries and that could be one of the boundaries.
And I know a true libertarian might say, well, if you take away the guns, they'll go after you with knives. And if you take away the steak knives, they'll use butter knives like they did on 9/11. But, you know, I would just prefer someone come after me with a butter knife, then come after me with a gun.
So anyway, I wrote this satirical essay while I was thinking about, gosh, wouldn't it be nice if it were so simple as to manage the human environment in order to make it impossible for people to do this to each other in the same way we can manage our dogs environments in order to make some behaviors impossible.
You know, we do manage kids' environments much more closely than the government manages adult environments. But, you know, I often compare crate training to school for my clients. You know, when that dog is in the crate, I know what she's doing and I know she's not going to be munching on my sofa in the other room. And I might even be able to help make sure that she's getting some good enrichment and learning something while she's in the crate, whether I'm doing training with her in the crate, or she's there with an enrichment toy.
And you know, why do we put kids in school? I think a big part of it is so that we know where they are and what they're doing, and we can try and make sure that they're engaging in good things while they're there, and that they're not engaging in things we don't want them to be doing. You know, so much of afterschool programs is about keeping kids off the proverbial street, which is a way in which we can control their behavior. I know my kid is in this space during these hours and will not be out selling drugs on the street corner.
But I never did anything with this essay because I was just worried it would be misunderstood as me making fun of a situation or just be misunderstood completely. But I thought I would share it today. And I had also the thought, if I'm doing this in podcast form, I can at least have a little preface where I explained that this is satire and that, you know, it stems not so much from the way I think the world could be, but how, it's more like the way that I wish…
I don't know. I wish we could be governed, having lots of freedom within bounds that would keep us from engaging in behaviors that are harmful to us, and through positive reinforcement, encourage good behaviors. But I'm not a politician. I'm not a community planner. I'm not an activist. So I guess that's another reason why I hesitated to publish this anywhere to put it anywhere because I thought, you know, who am I? Who am I to share my thoughts? Well, I'm a dog trainer. And this is my dog training point of view on guns in the US.
So this is called a Farewell to Footwear: A dog trainer weighs in on the shoe control debate:
I'd like to take a moment to talk about something that has been on all of our minds a lot lately, the problem of how to prevent the widespread damage caused by our country's laws regarding who can and cannot access and use shoes. As an animal trainer by profession. I am specifically interested in shoes that get into the hands, or rather in the mouth of dogs. From what I witnessed in the homes of my clients, the deleterious use of shoes by dogs is a problem with no easy solution.
Almost daily, I hear of incidents relating to shoe carnage, people coming home to find their Uggs in pieces all over the living room floor. Midnight vet runs spurred by decimated Nike's causing intestinal blockage. Children arriving at school late and in tears because the golden doodle has absconded with a sandal.
The problem goes beyond mere inconvenience. At any shelter, you can find dogs who faced euthanasia because of sins relating to their insatiable appetite for footwear and vets around the country will attest to the damage, sometimes irreversible and even fatal, that dogs caused themselves because of their obsession with our shoes.
After every incident, be it a small time heel nibble or a full-on closet rampage, there is one question that I hear over and over again. Why did he do it? Motive is a major cause of conversation around these issues. So many dog owners will say that shoe misuse stems from deep seated puppyhood issues, profound mental disturbance, or a need for dominance. Some say dogs are prone to these kinds of disruptive behaviors because of spite or inferiority complexes.
But as a trainer, I like to remind people that we can not read dog minds. We can make a lot of guesses, but there'll only ever be guesses. Did he do it because of issues with his absentee father? Was he trying to prove himself to the bitch next door? Maybe. And we could spend a lot of time trying to establish motives rooted in those kinds of storylines. But the fact is, if a dog eats your shoe, it's because there was a shoe available to eat.
So why are shoes so available? The problem seems to lie in shoe laws. This is a broad topic, but I'm specifically thinking about laws that pertain to how dogs can access shoes. In too many homes, shoes can be found strewn under the coffee table available to any dog who wanders in. Some homes have strict rules about keeping shoes in closets, but we live in a country where there are a lot of homes and each one has different regulations. And things get extra complicated when people from one home come into your home and have their own ideas about where they want their shoes to be.
Even in communities where people feel strongly about keeping shoes in closets, there is still room for problems since there are so many kinds of shoes. Someone who has a closet full of Louis Vuitton stilettos is going to treat rules about their closet very differently than the person who just has a couple pairs of Payless flip-flops.
What's more, some homes don't even have closets in which to put shoes. Others have closets that can be accessed by anyone, even household members who don't wear shoes. There is also of course, the tiny percentage of humans who misuse shoes, but can still access them from any closet without any trouble. Think of the shoe bomber.
Further complicating the shoe problem is the way in which from a young age dogs are taught to be interested in shoes. You'd be hard pressed to find a pet store that doesn't have some colorful squeaky, rubber sneaker that is meant for use by dogs. Then there are so many widely condoned dog games like fetch and tug that are often played with items that, to a dog, must vaguely resemble shoes.
While a dog may learn to discern toys, shoes, and shoe-like toys from the real thing, presenting all these complex “gateway options” complicates things for an animal who would really be just as happy with a stick.
Another problem is that dogs receive a lot of positive reinforcement when they engage with shoes. And the result of any positively reinforced behavior is the upped likelihood that said behavior will happen again. It doesn't matter how much these dogs are reprimanded for their shoe misconduct. In general, I think all attention tends to encourage behavior, even if it's angry attention.
Even attempting to punish them with severe time-outs or threats of death often ends up being largely reinforcing since in major dog shoe incidents, the dogs are berated with so much public fanfare. This only encourages more dogs, I think. After all, is there really anything a dog wants more than to have his day?
Whether your passion is for dogs or for shoes or for both, there's no denying that it’s puzzling that the way in which we interact with shoes is dictated by credos that date back to a time where shoes weren't what they are today, either in style or in number. Historical documents suggest that during the time when most of our shoe laws were written, people wore a lot of mules, which are by definition only really half a shoe.
This is not my area of expertise, but I'm guessing that those who were lucky enough to have shoes at all, probably were very careful with them since they most likely had only a pair or two, hardly enough to warrant closet space at all. And dogs were kept outside.
People today who feel strongly about the shoe rules made by our ancestors will tell you that shoes are not the problem. Dogs with shoes are the problem. Shoes, they argue are an integral part of what makes our country great. To this I say maybe. Steve Jobs invented the iPad, but the fact that he didn't want his children to use it is a reminder that progress and harm can be kissing cousins.
So maybe we really do need to blame our shoes. Or rather the fact that we think we need to wear them. Hell, dogs get by perfectly well without them. And most of our ancestors did fine without them, too. Think of the wars that wouldn't have been fought if the soldiers had had to go barefoot. Think of the hammertoes that never would have developed, and the resources Imelda Marcos could have diverted. Consider the many factory workers who wouldn't have had to make Air Jordans.
I'm not saying returning to a world without shoes would be easy. Getting rid of all shoes wouldn't be easy. Although dogs could certainly help us. A shoeless world would mean a lot of other things to consider like a mass immigration from cold climates. But personally, if I didn't have to worry about shoes, I think I could deal with moving to Florida. And just think of how clean your carpet would stay. As long as you can keep the dog from peeing on it. If that happens, you might need to call a dog trainer. Hire me and I'll probably tell you to lift up the carpet.
