17 DecEpisode 184 | Spencer Williams wants you to be your dog’s best friend: Meet the CEO of dog toy maker West Paw
Spencer Williams, the founder and CEO of Bozeman, Montana-based company West Paw, grew up on a working ranch where the dogs slept outside, worked hard, and, when they played, they did so with sticks. And... they were happy! Some twenty-odd years ago, he decided he wanted to help modern non-working dogs be that happy too, and wanted to do so in a way that wouldn't just improve doggie lives: It'd also improve the community and the earth. Those weren't small goals! Annie talks about the origins of this interesting company, whose guaranteed-for-life, recyclable, made-in-the-USA products have been sold at School For The Dogs in Manhattan and at storeforthedogs.com for nearly a decade. Learn how they became a "B-Corp" and what that means, in addition to finding out about some of their innovative products, materials, and practices.
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Transcript:
[intro and music]
Annie:
Well, thank you so much for taking the time to chat. I'm really excited to get to know you a little bit. I feel like I know you through your business. But maybe we could just start out, you could just say your name and your title, and we'll go from there.
Spencer Williams:
I'm Spencer Williams and I'm the CEO and owner of West Paw
Annie:
And West Paw, as School For The Dogs fans might know, makes some of the most fabulous dog toys on the market. We have been selling them at storeforthedogs.com since 2014. And I'm excited to talk to you, because as I've spent these years buying West Paw products, both for my own dogs and for our shop, I've learned a little bit about the company that has intrigued me. So first of all, tell me about being a B Corp. Is that what it's called?
Spencer:
Yeah, I mean, that's great. Well, and thanks for all the years of experience you have buying and using and selling our products. I'm looking forward to the conversation. And B Corp's a great place to start because it is a movement that matters a lot to West Paw.
This whole concept started just about a dozen years ago. And what people realized is that when they were leading a business that was impact driven, if that business had a change in leadership or a change in ownership, sometimes those impacts the business was able to drive would be lost in those transitions.
And the idea around the B Corp was how do you create more opportunity for those impacts to be long lasting? And how do you measure the impact? So the idea here, Annie is how, how do you differentiate from really good marketing to fact-based information on a company's impact.
And so that's where the B Corp movement came from. And in a nutshell today, what it means is that a company can choose to become a certified B Corp, and the B stands for benefit. That's a good way to think of it. Like you're benefiting primarily four areas in a business: the employees who work in the business, the community that that business is located in or impacts; it's also around the environment and how the business impacts the environment; and then finally the customer piece.
And so a certified B Corp goes through a rigorous third party assessment. And that third party assessment, Annie, is open to any business to take in a confidential manner, and it's done worldwide. If a company gets 80 points or higher on that assessment, that company can choose to become a certified B Corp by aligning to the mission and objectives of the B Corp movement, and agreeing to re-certify every three years.
And so this idea around the B Corp movement really fit with the vision and values that West Paw had had for the almost 15 years leading up to when the B Corp movement started. And so we were one of the early adopters jumping in and getting certified.
And what it helps West Paw do specifically, is that we use the assessment tool, which is like I said, very rigorous, and it helps to assess the business in a one step removed point of view from the business as to how we're performing those key areas. And then we use that information to help improve the business and make it more and more sustainable as the future would like.
And then it's also really, really helpful when employees apply, because they're looking to work in an impact driven purpose driven company. They trust that it's more than marketing, that there's actually a certain case behind it. And then I think the customers and consumers, they also feel the same way knowing that there's validity behind the claims of B Corp towards sustainability.
Annie:
And there’s only 3000 B Corps, is that right?
Spencer:
Yeah, it's something that is worldwide. There's actually more certified B Corps now outside the United States than inside the US, although it started here. And so it's a small, but highly impactful group of businesses.
Annie:
So what's an example of any changes you've had to make in any area in order to be certified or re-certified?
Spencer:
Yeah. So I'll give you an example which happened when we very first started. So this is 2012, our first assessment, and we'd always had what we called a new family leave policy. And so if a couple had a child, we would offer some paid time off, regardless it was the mother or the father. And the simple thing about that was that, well, one, that's not commonly done in the United States, and it's certainly wasn't common in 2012.
But an example of the change is we didn't actually have that written down. Our, you know, our employees had to ask for it, not that they had demanded. It just wasn't written, you know, it wasn't an official policy. And so when we certified, Hey, here's an official policy, you can take your intentions and put it on paper, and then every employee will know that this benefit is available regardless of gender.
Another good example is we started recently working with the pet sustainability coalition, which West Paw is one of the co-founding members of. Because we were curious in working with pet sustainability coalition recently. What is the life cycle analysis of our Zogoflex toys that we collect from consumers and retailers bring them back to our factory in Montana, clean and recycle them into brand new toys.
And we were able to use the questions from the B Corp assessment to help us understand that we weren't fully capturing the total impacts and total opportunities of that recycling program. And through our partnership with the pet sustainability coalition, we were able to access their consulting efforts to help us measure that. And then of course, that improved the business' sustainability, because we're able to put more efforts towards making our join the loop program more sustainable and getting back more of our dog toys. And now we know the value of that because of the assessment.
So these are a couple examples, both on the personnel side, on the human side, the social side, as well as the environmental side, where we’ve been able to make good changes because of the assessment.
Annie:
Hmm. I'm so glad you brought up Zogoflex. I would love if you could describe what Zogoflex is, but maybe even more broadly, what is your elevator pitch description of what West Paw makes as far as toys go? Now, I know you guys are more than just toys, but toys is mostly what we sell. So I'd love to hear how you define the kinds of toys you have.
Spencer:
Yeah. So, you know, West Paw's really focused on creating joyful connection with pets, dogs, people. And how that relationship happens is often centered around things like playtime, sleep and relaxation, cuddling, and also this idea of treating and rewarding and having really high quality foods be the center of that.
And so West Paw is diversified in that we do toys, that’s where we started, as a plush toy manufacturer. So those are the fuzzy squeaky toys, and we started making those in 1996, and we still make them right here, actually, right on the other side of the wall in this office that I'm sitting in, as our toy factory floor.
We also do injection molded toys where we make Zogoflex, one of the product lines that we're most famous for, because it's incredible folks on durability and safety and sustainability. As I mentioned earlier, we have a join the loop program where every Zogoflex toy is able to get recycled and turned into brand new toys here. And also that is made right in the same facility that I sit in today. And so we're really focused on the toys area. That's where we first started.
We have a great line of really awesome leashes and collars made from polyester that's been recycled. And we do focus on the bedding, you know, to make sure that there's a wide choice of blankets, mats and, and full on beds for dogs with sustainable materials, again also right here in Montana in our factory here.
And then, finally, we've recently in the last two years made a lot of effort to get into harvesting proteins, animal proteins that are often a waste stream, like beef liver and bison lung. And these are things that are very nutritious and lovely for dogs to eat. And humans eat them very, very, very rarely. And so they can be a waste stream, and the earth has produced these great proteins, and we wanna make sure they capture and give them real use to be of value to dogs. And so we created a line of dog treats that are going really, really well for us.
So that's in a nutshell, what we do. Focused on made in the USA, made by us, and sustainability. So that's kind of a quick overview. And one area that we're super excited about is pioneering new material and new processes. And so when Zogoflex was created, it's been 18 years ago, it changed the industry, because as a material it's super durable yet soft and pliable.
Annie:
Yeah. Yeah. What is the origin story of Zogoflex? It is, it feels weird! Right?
Spencer:
In a good way. Weird is good, right? Yeah, totally Annie. Zogoflex came from this idea of, you know, there's the old school latex and rubber products used in human products as well as pet products. And I was not interested in using those because you couldn't control the materials, you couldn't control the safety.
And so when we started this work almost 20 years ago, we were looking for modern contemporary materials that we could ensure were free of BPA which is now banned in water bottles. At the time it wasn't even on the radar. But now human water bottles can't even have it. It was free of phthalates, which are bad stuff in plastics. It was also free of all the heavy metals, right. And so we were looking for what kind of material would have all these safety properties, but would be incredibly durable.
And so we landed on what we call a thermoplastic elastomer. It's a mouthful, but it's a modern material that can balance the properties of a soft material that is grippy and pliable, yet has the durability that people often would associate with something like rubber. And so what's really cool about a modern material like what we use for Zogoflex is that it's really buoyant. It floats in water. It's very, very durable, it's dishwashers safe.
And furthermore, the material we chose and developed years ago complies with the FDA. So this material is so good and so clean, you can actually use it for serving food to humans if you wanted to come in contact with human foods. And so it's just a really safe, very human grade material, which is what we started it from, but it had to have recyclability as well.
So that's what makes Zogoflex so unique. And it was really getting together with some of the brightest people in Bozeman, the most creative people who were looking at different things and wondering how do we make a dog toy that was really great. And we live in a great community in Bozeman where over years doing business, we knew who to talk to. And we literally sat down over a table over several months and came up with this, and it changed our company and the industry forevermore.
Annie:
And you're the only ones who use it?
Spencer:
We are, it's a unique formulation that we have worked very, very hard on to balance this pliable, this, I think you called it weird, right? It's like pliable, but yet really tough and durable. It’s got some mass to it, some weight, but yet it floats in water. And for us, that unique combination is what makes Zogoflex such a wonderful product line.
Annie:
And when you talk about recycling, I mean, what you mean is, literally, people can mail you their chewed up dog toys because they're sturdy, but they're not indestructible, and you will recycle it and replace them too. Right?
Spencer:
Yeah, Annie, you’re right on. So this is really an interesting concept. And so I wanna take one step back from our product line. Just talk about like, as consumers, we put a lot of burden on systems, right? Those economic and environmental systems when we consume, and it goes in the landfill in its end of life.
And so, Zogoflex was created to have this opportunity where consumers, retailers, could all participate in sending the product back so it would have another life here as a brand new toy, not downcycled into something that is only gonna be used once more. But actually all of our toys have re-grind in them, as a term that we take a product, clean it, break it down, and we put it through a chipper, and it creates these little pellets that we can then melt into brand new toys again.
And so the product was conceived in this idea of how do you get this consumer cycle to be continuous, right? Not have an end of life. And then is that possible? So we did create the first guaranteed dog toy, and we created a program called join the loop. We're inviting consumers, inviting retailers to join us in sending product back to our factory here in Bozeman, where they can feel really good that it's getting recycled right here in our factory, getting turned into brand new toys. And that's the program. And we've been able to scale that nationwide, and people are really excited about it.
So sometimes we get toys back then that have been hit by a lawnmower, and they're in like two or three or five pieces. And, you know, Here's the toy, I don’t want to put it in the trash, can you recycle this? We also, as you know, with the guarantee, if the dog does chew through our product, we stand behind it, and we will first try to find a better shape for the dog's behavior and temperament. And if that's not possible, we can refund the money. We ask that we get the product back because that material, that raw material can have another life.
Annie:
I'm glad you brought up the shape because that's one thing that also intrigues me about your company is that, and the name of products. I mean, Zogoflex is a funny name. All of the products have very unique shapes and names. There's the Toppl, one of my favorites, which is like a sort of upside down cup or well, I guess, right side up or upside down, like thimble with sort of little tendrils inside. The Tux, which looks like three balls kind of smushed together with a hole. The Bumi, which has a sort of unique S shape. Where do these things come from? Plus the weird names?
Spencer:
Yeah. So again, you know, we're pretty homegrown here. And so these shapes have all been developed with our teams right here at West Paw. And when we need to, we bring in some partners here in Bozeman who have helped us over time help with some new ideas. And it's very much of a homegrown activity. We love to create products that are fun for dogs to use. And as I said, it comes back to this joyful connection between dogs and their people. And so we've been able to come up with these great shapes right here with our teams.
And it's fun. You know, you mentioned Toppl, which is a great product. When you put treats in it and you put it on the ground, right. It kind of topples around, it moves. And so the names often have some sort of indication of what might be the use of this product. So Toppl has that.
Hurley, which is one of our best sellers today, was sort of this modern take on what the favorite thing the dogs like is, right. It's a combination of a stick, a bone and a ball, right? The handle, the end of the Hurley fits in your hand, really nice like a ball and allows you to throw really far. And, and so Hurley, the idea to hurl this and throw it.
Bumi is maybe a little bit like, thinking about a boomerang. Does it kind of feel a little bit like a boomerang, almost like you would throw it for a dog and it might come back, or is it something that you get to tug with your dog? It has multiple uses.
Or Qwizl is another really fun treat toy. Qwizl s this idea of how do you create a quiz for the dog, right? How do you get the bully stick out from the center of Qwizl? Or the treat, the nut butter that you might have spread in there?
Annie:
Oh my gosh. I never, I didn't realize. I'd never read into the names so deeply. [laughs]
Spencer:
[laughs] Well, we, you know, with Zogoflex it’s the same thing. We literally get a group of people together, and we start off with a white piece of paper or a whiteboard, and we start putting up names, and we start riffing on them. What sounds interesting. What's really fun. What's fun to say. And that's how these names have all been created. They're literally invented names for the product line and for the products. Yeah.
Annie:
Well, and then even your plush toys have funny names, like Gertrude, isn't that one of them, and Hamilton.
Spencer:
[laughs] Yeah, exactly. Yeah. There's a whole line of toys here in our Rowdies collection.
Annie:
Yeah, the Rowdies.
Spencer:
Yeah. They're really crazy fun plush with these great eyes, incredibly durable, hearty techs material that we developed that helps create some more durability. And a lot of the Rowdies even have Zogoflex chew zones on the ends of their hands. And one of our longtime employees, a fellow Montanan here, she said, you know, there's so many counties in Montana. What if we started naming all the Rowdies from the counties of Montana? So the Rowdy product line is full of the county names of Montana.
Annie:
Oh!
Spencer:
And they have some really funny names. Yeah.
Annie:
Again, did not realize that! [laughs] Ruby, Wilson, Taylor, Custer, Judith. So these are all counties in Montana?
Spencer:
Yeah.
Annie:
Oh my gosh.
Spencer:
The Judith Gap was a famous pass Lewis and Clark went through. Darby, Montana. Hamilton, Montana. Geraldine. These are all –
Annie:
Ah, Mystery solved. All right, guess you have to be Montanan to know this. Now I know that you're from Montana. And when you were a younger man, you bought a a toy company, a dog toy company. Is that how West Paw started? Tell me the story.
Spencer:
That's absolutely right. The very beginning. Right. So I grew up on a working ranch in Montana. I loved the idea of getting into manufacturing. I'd always enjoyed working with my hands and creating something, inventing something. And when I went out to college and then the work I did after college, I guess the value of manufacturing a product really struck me. And I wanted to move back to Montana, and had few ideas of things that I might pursue for manufacturing.
And the idea was, how do you bring a diverse group of people together? And at the end of the day, you all can kind of walk home and be, you know, be at the end of your day, walk out of the facility and say, Hey, I helped make something. Something that was valuable to somebody, had lasting value.
And so that's the manufacturing thing that I wanted, that feeling. And when I came to Montana, I was looking for a place to live with my fiance, and a friend had told me that a woman, who was an excellent seamstress and had created some great toy shapes that were plush toys for cats and dogs, was interested in selling her very small business. And that was the start that I got. I didn't know how to do the business. I didn't know anything about business.
And this, this woman was incredibly helpful, very kind and supportive, and told me, you know, how she did things and how she made the business work. And so that gave me a foundation for six months to go figure out, like, how do I do this? And then started trying to, you know, reevaluate products, come up with some new shapes, and come up with some ideas on how do we do marketing.
The former owner of the company has never been to a trade show and they were very successful, and had advised against it. And yet I felt like I needed to meet retailers and get their feedback. So we started doing trade shows, and the business just continued to grow.
We purposefully, over 25 years, never tried to grow the business like a hockey stick. In today's world people often think like overnight success. And, you know, you grow it as fast as you can. And don't worry about the profits. We were very focused on profitability sustains jobs, profitability reinvesst into product development, which helps retailers and consumers with new ideas that become great products. And so we were very focused on taking it slow and building the business bit by bit. And that's what we've done since the beginning.
Annie:
Hmm. Now, did you have any kind of particular interest in pets?
Spencer:
Oh, yeah. So as I said, I grew up on a working ranch in Montana. We mostly ran cattle and had some dry land and wet land for hay production. When I was young, I enjoyed collecting the animals that were sort of the strays, right? So this was out in the countryside. This is, we're not in town. And you know, adopted a cat, three-legged that had come, helped raise up the litter of kittens that she brought to the farm. And, what really was always around me were pets.
The cattle weren't ever my closest pet. But we, my brother and I were fortunate, we got into the sheep raising business when we were very young. That was kind of a side project for us. And that was incredible because I actually really enjoyed being with sheep in the field, and helping raise up the bum lambs and all that. So always had animals around, always was very, very interested in pets.
And as mentioned back, my fiance, my wife of 24 years, when she and I were dating and engaged, we had an amazing chocolate lab named Shoki. And she was the inspiration for getting in the pet business specifically. In fact, I named my company, my first company was Shoki. So yeah, very much focused on pets.
Annie:
How has the industry changed in that, in that time?
Spencer:
Well, I think, first, I would say Annie, there's been some beautiful things that haven't changed. In 25 years in this industry, what I have found is some really wonderful relationships. People who like you who work in this space, do it for something that is not about money, right.
We do it for connection. We do it for a purpose. We do it to help people and pets grow to become better, right? Through training or product, right? All the things that you touch in your day to day, Annie. Those things still exist in our industry in a way that I think is profound and helpful to attract a certain type of people.
I've often really enjoyed working in this industry, because it is the people who are in the industry that care about the pets and the relationships. I think it's a great place. So I like that that has happened over my 20th five years in the industry.
What I think has changed is, I saw first after the major correction recession that happened in ‘07, ‘08, you know, the term recession proof had been thrown around about the pet industry before. And at that time when there was such a loss in the stock market, private equity, stock market kind of private–sorry, publicly traded companies, we're looking for, how do they get into new industries?
Well, pet is anything but new. It's one of the oldest industries, little bit of a sleeper in a way. And so we saw a lot of innovative companies coming in, a lot of money coming in. And COVID and the changes that happened in 2020 has only accelerated up more.
And so you're ending up, I think, in this industry now seeing a lot of outside influence, which is good and bad. I think it's good because it also creates more competition, and people have to sort of raise their a game and play at a higher level of excellence. But it's also, I think, is somewhat diluting, the idea that people are attracted to this industry because of this common passion we have around pets and what they bring to life.
But you know, there's always change. So, I recognize that, but I think all in all, it's been a consistently great industry and a great experience for me and for my teams who get to participate in industry over many years.
Annie:
Well, it's interesting to me, Spencer, that you come from a working farm and produce these toys that are pretty high end, that, I mean, they're not inexpensive as dog toys go. And I mean, as we're discussing, the price reflects more than just the piece of rubber that's ending up in a dog's mouth. But they are largely being sold to people who don't have dogs as working animals. They have dogs as cherished pets.
I'm wondering if you have encountered any kind of, oh, I guess how would I put it…I mean, do you feel like you live in two worlds, one where people think, you know, Animals are animals and need to be serving our purposes, why would we spend $18 to $30 on a piece of rubber for them? And then other people who see it in the way that, like, I'm buying a pet toy that is part of some greater idea I have about how I want to treat an animal I live with? Am I making, is my question making sense?
Spencer:
I think I kind of get the essence and let me, lemme take a swing at it. And you help redirect me. You know, I came from the world where our dogs, they all slept outside.
Annie:
I mean, were your parents buying $30 dog toys for your dogs when you were growing up?
Spencer:
Our dogs had sticks. Right? And sticks was all that they had. I mean, maybe at Christmas there was something? But I remember not having toys. In the doghouse outside was an old blanket or maybe an old towel, right? No dog beds. So things have changed in my lifetime incredibly.4
And I think there are both worlds. There are working dogs who – and let me stop and say, you know, I don't know if you agree with me here, but I think all dogs, they need a job, right? They're here to do something, a purpose. We all are, in fact, when you come right down to it. And so working dogs on a ranch or a farm, you know, they're guarding property or livestock, or what have you, they've got a job to do.
I think it's important when we think about the toys that we buy for dogs who are in apartments and houses and in urban settings, like what is their job to do? What is it that they do? And that's why we really focused a lot on the idea of mental stimulation and opportunity for problem solving and gameplay with dogs, because they need a job. They need something to do, they want to contribute.
And that's, when dogs feel like they're able to contribute in a productive manner, I think the relationship, that joyful connection I was talking about, is even better, right. And there's generally a better compatibility in that home.
And so I do feel like I live in two worlds. I grew up in one world, let's say where dogs were given, just the basics, and yet they were quite happy and well cared for and got that, this and all that. And I now live in a world where dogs are given grassfed beef, heart and liver, right? [laughs] And high tech toys.
I think it's kind of a beautiful thing when you can look at all sorts of people and pets, interacting differently. And when the relationship and the physical health is good, that's all good. It's all a positive thing.
What we wanna do in our business is as we create the opportunity for that joyful connection through our products, we wanna do it in a way that is both safe and sustainable. And so as we come back to this conversation around consumer behavior, how do you spend, you know, $5 on a toy that is gonna last five minutes? Can you spend $20 or $30 on our product or somebody else's, that's gonna last a year?
Annie:
Mm-hmm.
Spencer:
Different temperaments, different dog owners would say, there's no way a product is going to last a year. For many dogs that could be true. We often have stories of toys that have lasted years with dogs, because the quality.
And so while I see the range of what is spent or provided for dogs over my lifetime, I think at the end of the day, I tend to be very focused in West Paw around making quality that lasts. And by lasting, it’s safer, and by lasting, it's impacting the planet and our communities less and has more benefit to it. So that's kind of where we come from. Did I kind of get to your question Annie?
Annie:
Yeah. I mean, I think it’s interesting that you straddle two worlds and certainly see the value of both. And I absolutely agree. I think dogs need jobs, and if we are keeping them in apartments, we can do them the favor of giving them, you know, literally toys that are designed to make them work and engage.
I always say, if you don't give a dog a job, they're gonna find their own career and it might not be, not what you had in mind!
Spencer:
Yeah. As I sit here talking with you, Annie, I'm not surprised that my dog is facing the door. You know, laying down on the floor, facing the door to the outside, to the open office area. Just kinda like, Who's coming next? Or is there a dog coming down the hallway that he wants to just sniff and make sure everything's good. So he's working right now. He looks like he's sleeping, but he’s still working, between me and the door.
Annie:
[laughs] But your toys are designed to get dogs to solve problems and use their mouths. And they're not as, it might not be so obvious to someone looking at them, as, for example, I'm sure you're familiar with Nina Ottosson toys which have like drawers and doors and flips and flaps and whatever, and are meant also to engage doggy brains and mouths.
Your toys sort of visually have a more subtle approach. Although they are very neon colors and flashy names. But it might not be so clear to a consumer who hasn't found one of these at a place like School For The Dogs that these toys are meant to be stuffed with food and have bully sticks jammed into them. And they're not just meant to be tossed.
Spencer:
Well said.
Annie:
I think one last thing I'm curious about is, tell me about the cookbook if you would, because I'm so fascinated by this whole, I don't even know what to call it, this movement of making these fancy stuffed toys. It's like the bento lunchbox movement for pet parents. I mean, how do you describe what's happening? I encountered on Instagram, these fabulously, these Toppls with like rabbit ears and mermaid gelatin things sticking – I mean, I don't even know what's going on. Tell me.
Spencer:
You know, so what you're describing is Toppl, Qwizl, and Toppl in particular, and other toys that we have, people are finding ways to be creative and to have fun with their dog and to connect with that dog in a way that is very new, right, and different. And, then posting these images, the videos on Instagram, and people are just inspired from each other. I think it's a really cool thing. We didn't realize it would happen the way it is.
But you mentioned Nina Ottosson. Nina and I have talked in years past when she was first starting her business, and my business was smaller. And, you know, we were coming at a similar issue from a couple different angles. My perception on the Nina Ottosson toys is just really awesome designed puzzles that are specific, like a specific way to play, which is fantastic for dogs.
And where we came in from the toys was more of this, like how does the human impact that experience from some creativity on the human side? And so Toppl is the creativity of the human gone to an extremely awesome place of putting all of these rabbit ears right. And the purees and freezing things in them, and making sure that the dog can like have, you know, 20 minutes or an hour of playtime with a frozen ingredient mixed in Toppl, right. As part of their daily routine.
Annie:
And make it something that can then like, look fabulous. [laughs]
Spencer:
And then look, yeah, it looks fabulous, right? Like human food, no, it's like art, right? And so what we love about the consumer movement has been that they take a product and they show us, those that created the form, how it is best used, what is its most creative opportunity. And, I just love being able to watch these consumers and what they're doing.
And so The Toy of Cooking, which is our cookbook, has come from that place. We really put together the cookbook in its printed form as well as this digital form, with all the ideas and recipes from the consumer. They're not West Paw. We didn't create this. We're just shining a light on the creativity that exists out there. And we think it's a beautiful thing, because it is really, really fun to create these amazingly gorgeous, nutritious, and mentally stimulating treats for dogs.
But a lot of people are very, very pragmatic. Andy, who works here, and his dog Rex is, oh, Rex is in the office. I'm guessing he's nine months old right now. Rex needs some opportunity to just kind of focus. And so Andy has a very regimented routine of getting a wine cork to plug the hole on the side of the Toppl, putting some beef broth in, some mix of West Paw treats, and then freezing that overnight so that in the morning when the newspaper arrives, Andy can give Toppl in its frozen state to Rex and get 20 minutes of reading the newspaper.
So people have taken it to the extremes, you've seen, with these lavish designs, they're gorgeous. And then people are like Andy, who are just really pragmatically making a toy work in a creative fashion for the dog and for the human as well. So I think it's fun how Toppl can express itself in so many different ways.
Annie:
I love how you call it Toppl, like, not the Toppl or a Toppl. Just like…
Spencer:
Oh, no, it's Toppl.
Annie:
And what's on the horizon? Any new toys that you can talk about?
Spencer:
Well, we are working really a lot around this idea of Seaflex. I don't know if you've seen that yet.
Annie:
I have. We haven't started carrying those yet, but how is that different from Zogoflex?
Spencer:
Yeah, so Seaflex, much like Zogoflex, is based on this soft yet durable thermoplastic. And what we wanted to do with this new line is to really put our efforts as a company who's using plastics towards putting a stop towards plastics entering the ocean. And so, by international standard, within 40 miles of the coasts, any plastic that can be harvested there before it gets into the ocean is technically called ocean bound. Cause it's gonna likely end up in the ocean.
And so we worked with a supplier and our supply chain to help start harvesting that, that ocean bound plastic from south and central America, bringing it back to the United States, cleaning it, and then formulated a very special high tech formulation of Zogoflex that allows us to use about 12% ocean bound plastic.
And so every toy that we sell is helping to keep plastic from there in the ocean. Because not every river and every beach throughout the world has the kind of sanitation systems that we would like to have to preserve our planet. And so this creates an economic model to keep that plastic from going into the ocean in the first place.
So Seaflex has been really fun to design. It's got some really interesting swirled colors and they're really beautiful products. They're focused very much on the fetch and play part right now, with some tug toy in there as well. And they respond very similarly to Zogoflex.
What's interesting, Annie, and I don't quite know – this is the beautiful part about working with dog products, from beds, to treats, to toys: the human don't really get to give the feedback. You've gotta get the feedback directly from the dog, right? And what's funny is that some dogs, mine, Nico, in particular, like the feel, the mouth feel, the jiggly nature of Seaflex, even more than they like Zogoflex.
So having a different new material out there is not only good for the planet. It allowed us to be creative with some new forms, new shapes. But some dogs were really loving it in a different way from Zogoflex. And we had not perceived that as humans with all the data that we have, that there would be any difference to the knowledge, but some dogs do like it in a different way.
Annie:
So are you gonna start making something like the Toppl now out of that, instead of the Zogoflex?
Spencer:
We're starting to work on the next range of Seaflex toys, which will have a little bit more puzzle activity in their near future. For sure. Looking forward to that, that'll be coming out hopefully in the summer of next year.
Annie:
Well, thank you Spencer so much. And I promise my last question. Are there any other companies that, as someone who sells dog toys and uses them with her dogs, any other companies that you think we should be carrying or that you think are doing good things for the world in all also creating good things for dogs?
Spencer:
Yeah. You know, I would, there's a lot of great companies doing some great work out there. And as you know, here's a great filter for your listeners to this podcast. We were, as I mentioned earlier, co-founders of the pet sustainability coalition. And I think that good, well made products should be sustainable as well.
And I would encourage your listeners to check out the pet sustainability coalition. It’s a nonprofit, and members of that association and organization are likely to have more sustainable choices for your audience. And I would encourage that they go through there and look at those brands and see if one of those brands is worth their vote with their dollars to support them.
On the treat side, a long time friend of ours is Earth Animal, and they do a really good a job, I believe, with their treats. And what's fun is that they work really well in a lot of our toys. And so I think Earth Animals is doing a really great job creating some treats.
And on the toys side of things, you know, we continue to support work with other companies in this space, and one of our longest term competitors, who's working more and more on sustainability and puzzle toys is Kong, and they were one of the co-founding members. And Kong's a great competitor of ours. They're a fantastic brand. And we really encourage them as they become more and more of a sustainable company. So there's a couple I would encourage to look at.
Annie:
Amazing. Thank you so much, Spencer. I'm excited to share this and and I hope we will meet in person, perhaps sometime soon.
Spencer:
I would love to. And it's so nice to meet you and talk with you. And I thank you for your podcast and the information you're providing to the listeners, and also just for your support of West Paw and your interest in my story and what we've done here in the company.
Annie:
All right. Thank you again.
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