italian rescue greyhound

Episode 85 | BONUS EPISODE Virtual private training session: Heidi a rescue greyhound living in Manhattan

Sit in on an initial virtual private dog training session with Annie Grossman and NYC residents Aquilla and Briana and their new rescue greyhound, Heidi. Heidi doesn't want to sit and is trying to get to Aquilla and Briana's food whenever they eat while sitting on the couch. Annie offers some practical solutions and shows them how to shape Heidi to lie on a mat. Annie also shares Norwegian writer/dog trainer Turid Rugaas' thoughts on why we shouldn't train dogs to sit at all.

Transcript

Annie:

This session is a recording of a private session we did with a client. You can book a private session schoolforthedogs.com. And for a limited time, if you purchase our online good dog training course available at schoolforthedogs.com/courses, you can do a complimentary 30 minute virtual private training session with a school for the dog strainer.

The trainer in this session is me, Annie. Aquilla, Brianna and their dog Heidi are clients of ours who live in New York city. Heidi is a rescue dog that they just adopted.

 

Annie:

Hi, hi, Pretty rainbow collar.

So how did Heidi come into your life, your lives?

 

Brianna/Aquilla:

We got Heidi almost a month ago now. I think a month tomorrow on the 19th, we rescued her from a Greyhound rehab. The organization's called Greyhound Rescue and Rehab, and they take greyhounds that are retired from the tracks, rehab them and foster care and then adopt them out. So she was a racer for a couple of years. She's three years old. So far we've done…we started on the 21 day training. Right. That's where we started. She is really good with “look,” pretty okay with “touch” still working on that in distraction areas. So like when we go to the park depending on whether or not there's a squirrel, she'll respond or if there's a lot of stimulus, she loves people. So people are a big distraction for her. Like, she'll stop walking if she sees a person, which in New York, it's like every three feet just so she can get pets from other people.

 

And if they have a dog, then they're more likely to have treats, definitely stop. She's a little shy when it comes to other dogs though. She does the scared tail and like, depending on the type of dog, her hair will like stand on end. But she kind of just stands when dogs approach her. Once she engaged a puppy and they have like a quick little play moment. But she, like, if we take her to the dog park she doesn't really play with the other dog.

 

And she doesn't show any signs of aggression towards them. Like, even with those, might be nervous signs. She just stands there and like the dogs, she has no problem with dogs sniffing her face or sniffing her or licking her. And if they walk away, then she follows the dog as in like, oh, I'm more interested now, but not in like any aggression.

 

Yeah. And so she's learning pretty quickly. Yeah. She's highly food motivated. So I know in our email we mentioned the sit thing, but literally right after that email she started to sit or to recognize that and actually speak to it. It's like a lean type sit, it's the weird Greyhound sit.

 

They have bad hips, but she doesn't have bad hips. It's just her legs. Yeah. But she's starting to realize like, if I, and she only does it on her, on her bed right now, which like I get that …she's starting to realize, like if I put my butt down on this thing, I will get food. And so we're kind of going from there to see if she'll eventually do like the… sometimes greyhounds will so you a Sphinx sit where their hind legs are doing the proper sit, but they're actually laying down

 

Annie:

Hi, baby. I'm on the phone. You can say hi. Say hi ladies. It's a doggy and I'm doing some trainings with their doggy, it's like your doggy who s right there. Why don’t you go do some training with your dog? You go do some training with your doggy…

 

Have you done the Good Dog Training part of the course yet?

 

Brianna/Aquilla:

No, not yet. We started with the….

 

Annie:

The 21 days. Yeah. Okay, great. I would suggest doing the good dog training course. Next it's mostly videos. You can go through the whole thing in probably two or three hours, or you could do it a little at a time. If there's resources that take you out of the course, so it could take longer if you wanted to, but if you just did just that few hours, and I think that'll give you a really good overview kind of, like the School for the Dogs approach to training which I think you're gonna, you're gonna dig based on your, your vibe already with her.

 

You know, a lot of it is about kind of figuring out how we can arrange situations to get behaviors we want and also figuring out how we can use the things we have access to that she likes in order to encourage behaviors that we want and to help create associations that we want her to make. And I think it's like really great that you're already so aware of her…of how she seems to be reacting to people and dogs on the street. And in the dog park, just curious,  where do you guys live? Like what dog park are you taking her to?

 

Brianna/Aquilla:

The one at 72nd.

 

Annie:

Okay. I don't know that one. Dog parks in general…the other course that I think you got in the package you got is called the is… there's another course called the Body Language Basics course that it is maybe like an hour worth of content. And I would suggest going through that one too because I think it'll help you be even more aware of how she is feeling at the dog park. Just help give you some things to look for and help you notice what other dogs are doing at the dog parks that may indicate, you know, stay closer, go away. I'm always hesitant to suggest that people bring their dogs to dog parks in general, just because they feel like I don't trust other people necessarily in dog parks.

 

Brianna/Aquilla:

One-hundred percent.

 

Annie:

And the whole like, there dogs, let them work it out. You know,  I think often they won't work it out the way we want them to work it out. And you know, it's also funny, like when you, when you tune into like how much people are talking to their dogs at their dog park in order to talk to other people, they're like, you know, buddy, don't be a bully, you know, it's not really going to help.

 

Brianna/Aquilla:

That's not how you get your dog to listen to you. We also tend to make sure because greyhounds tend to have such thin skin. We go when there's not a lot of dogs there because she's also warming up to other dogs. So we don't want to overstimulate her. And we have only let her off the leash, I think like once or twice, but she still stayed really by us….

 

Annie:

Yeah. Really smart. And that's great that she’s staying by you, you know, think of it as like, it's time where you guys can hang out together with her off-Leash. Rather than, you know, this, like she's going to be in the center of the circle and I'm going to be on the perimeter on my phone.

 

Brianna/Aquilla:

Yeah.

 

Annie:

Which, I mean, like, I've been guilty of like being on my phone at the dog park, but usually it's like, when my dog is like literally on the bench next to me and the way I'm thinking about it, it was like we're hanging out off leash, like he's with me, I’m  with him. And interestingly, actually a dog parks,  there's you, the bigger, the dog park often the less incidences you're going to find. So actually, if you could, if, if you can make it to like Central park for their off leash hours….

 

Brianna/Aquilla:

Oh yeah, we live right next to Central park….

 

Annie:

Just get like a nice long lead for her. But what's nice is about  that is like, there's actually evidence that suggests that like at bigger dog parks, people stay closer to their dogs because it's not like if you're in a small dog where I can be like, she's fine and she's 10 feet away. Whereas if you're at a big dog park, you're probably going to be more with her.

 

So yeah, I am all for, you know, her getting, you know, getting the ability to stretch her legs. And you're saying she seems like very interested in people outside and less and a little reticent about other dogs. I think my overall, like big picture suggestion is, and sorry, what are you feeding her food wise. And when are you?

 

Brianna/Aqilla:

Nutro? We're feeding her morning, a tiny scoop in lunch hour and then regular dinner. So probably like 7:30/8 for breakfast, and then like 1:00 PM for her like snack and then like 530/6sish for her dinner. So she gets four cups of food a day

 

Annie:

Is all of it dry food?

 

Brianna/Aquilla:

Yes. And then we put a little bit of water in there. Because when we were having her on wet food, she was just not… Greyhounds have very loose stool to begin with. And her tummy  was like, no, I don't like this.

 

Annie:

What were you giving her before?

 

Brianna/Aquilla:

So we're still giving her the Nutro chicken. I think…

 

Annie:

You were giving her like canned before you mean?

 

Brianna/Aquilla:

Yeah. And then… well we were mixing it, it was a mix of the dry and the wet food. And then her stomach was like no. So we started giving her the dry food with a little bit of sweet potatoes sometimes. And now we've just been doing the dry food.

 

Annie:

And then she's psyched about it.

 

Brianna/Aquilla:

Oh, she loves it. Literally, we tried to do the challenge where it's like, act like you're starving your dog. And I put like five kibbles in there expecting her to be like, what the hell is this? And she like scarfed it up and having licking the bowl. And it was like, no problem with her.

 

Annie:

What about treats? Have you found treats that she's into?

 

Brianna/Aquilla:

She likes everything. We use the, oh, what is it called? The hot dog treats from the from the store?

 

Annie:

Which one? Which treats?

 

Brianna/Aquilla:

I think it's the hot dog. They're like the cheese dog treats that are like, yeah…

 

Annie:

Cheese dog treats, ok…

 

Brianna/Aquilla:

But we also give her like the chicken, the chicken strips that are like in a yellow bag and blue, and then she came with some Milk-Bones and…

 

Annie:

Oh yeah, those are great. Yeah. Those are great. Those are the Tricky Trainer cheddar ones. One at one of those treats, you can like use your thumb to break it up into like six pieces. So if she likes her dry food, you can bring your dry food out with you and use it as treats. I mean, just overall, as far as food goes, I mean…I would suggest probably going more towards like a fresh food, something with limited ingredients, rather than using a canned or dry food, just because like, there's so much more highly processed and, you know, as someone whose dog is now old, I'm like, I fed him like I am as I think for like the first half of his life. And now I'm like, oh, no, toxicities, you know, built up in his body, you know, before I switched to feeding him more like fresh foods. I think it's, it does make a big difference as far as like their overall health, just because since we are feeding them the same things every day, they can build up like, you know, issues can build up more than like with us, cause we have just naturally a more varied diet. So I have a podcast episode I did a few months ago called..with the woman who runs truthaboutpetfood.com, which is a really good site. And she puts out a list that you can buy for $10 of like the best dog foods. And she does all the research to figure out like the 10 or 20 best dog foods. And now I'm like committed to only buying like whatever's on her list so I pass on that information, take, take it or leave it as you will. And I mean, even if you're just making part of her food, fresh food, I think it's probably a good idea.

 

But if you were to change nothing at least you could be using her dry food as treats. And also, you know, I think it's generally a good idea to feed in toys. I'm a big fan of food toys just to generally, you know, like help engage her brain, et cetera, et cetera.

 

But to go to go backwards addressing like your specific issues of how can we help her feel good about like other dogs on the street and not be so distracted by people- my suggestion is to start making your walks like dining outdoors walk. So like get a, get a treat pouch, have it on you. And you know, if you wanted, all of her meals really could be like these outdoors, eating extravaganzas where, what you want to do is, is both create an association for her that, you know, like when other people… when other dogs approach, you know, I get something good from my women…

 

Brianna/Aquilla:

Yeah, she’s starting to get that. We started to just give her treats when other dogs would smell her or her people, because she enjoys it. So now she's because before she wouldn't even stop to look at other dogs, she ike, and I'm moving along.

 

Annie:

I think if she doesn't, I don't think she necessarily needs to stop and do any kind of greeting with other dogs for now. I think I would just focus more on like, you know, you, you see another dog is 20 feet away. Heidi gets a treat at your knee and it, you know, be specific about where you're giving it so that she doesn't have to go looking for it. And you know, you can let her know that it's coming, you know, you can use like a, like “yes” or a clicker or whatever, but the thing that you're using, the thing that you're saying “yes” to, or the thing that you're clicking, it doesn't need to be like a specific behavior that she's done, it's just an in this instance, letting her know, like, hey, there's a treat that my knee. And what's going to happen is she's going to start being like, oh, every time I see another dog, there's a treat at their knee or wherever you want it to be, but it should be somewhere again, predictable, easy for her to get to.

 

Ditto with people because, and you know, I would keep greetings of people to a minimum right now. I mean, not… I want her to have a happy relationship with dogs and people, but again, because she's like, I mean, she's pretty new in your life. And so like, let's do all we can to make her be like these two people are the most awesome people. Actually I did a podcast episode a couple of weeks ago. Or maybe last week with this guy, Dom Hodgson, who's a trainer in England. And his whole idea is like, he talks about like be your dog superhero, like, make your dog think that you control all the good things in life and you have magical powers. And also like he talks about like being selfish with your dog, which like at first I was like, well, isn't that kind of a negative thing? Like, I mean, it sounds negative, like be like be selfish, but what he means is like, be selfish of your dog's attention. Like if your dog has the opportunity to like, be interested in other people or other dogs, like make sure your dog is interested in you. Like, and that's what he means by being selfish, because it's like, at the end of the day, you're the person who's keeping your dog safe and you want your dog to like, look to you for you know, all information about what is, and isn't okay. And you also want your dog to just like generally have the association that like, wherever you are is a good thing. Like associate, you know, being outside at all with like, you know, all of these great things from her new guys.

 

So get a good treat pouch, if you don't have one already and make meal time, outdoor time, not, it doesn't have to be forever, but I would say give it like a week and just see how that goes and see how that changes her behavior. Purely, purely just feeding her in a new place. And you know, another way to help her, keep her attention on you outside could be like changing directions a lot. So walking fast, like if she's like, oh, I got to keep up with them and I never know where they're going to go. I mean that also just might make one, like walking more fun for her.

 

Brianna/Aquilla:

And she, she really does like to walk. We don't have much issue with getting her to walk unless like we're trying to get her accustomed to her harness. But the thing that we've been currently struggling with has been like, since she's learning to sit and like has to sit in order to get her food, then like the second we go to move her food down, she like… it's like her sits last two seconds.

 

The elevator drill was not like… day one, she did not understand why we were doing the elevator drill. And that was actually the first time that we heard her bark at us, like consistently. And I was like, wait a minute. They're like greyhounds don't bark. And then here she is like barking, nonstop for like a minute, because she's like, I am standing on my bed. I stood on my bed, give me my food. And we were like, no, no, no. And she's doing all the other commands that we taught her like lookiing at us and like touching our hand and we were trying to do the elevator thing and she's like, I don't understand what's happening.

 

Annie:

Well, well then I, you know, you can skip that exercise for now if she's not like bum rushing when you're giving her her food. But also, like I said, you're probably going to be giving you can also use just our regular food in training. So like, you could basically like get rid of the bowl altogether for a while and try the elevator game with something that she's like less jazzed about, but still interested in, so like use it with like, do like with a toy or her water bowl or something like that. But if sitting if an issue., I don't know a lot about like greyhounds in particular as a breed and their ability or inability to sit to be completely honest. But, I do think sit is kind of an arbitrary behavior that we've all decided dogs need to do. And it's like, sitting's not her thing. It's not her thing. That's my personal feeling about it. So like, if you wanted to work on like her lying down more than sitting…

 

Brianna/Aquilla:

Right- that is really what we did we had read the greyhounds for dummies book because we never had a Greyhound and we had a similar experience with like other dogs where they can just sit. And so we learned that it's easier to kind of capture their down movement and let them know that like, oh, while they're down, reward them while they're down. And they'll get the sense that, oh, if I lay down then I get a treat and then we started to do that when she kind of sits like when she starting to lay down, like as soon as her butt hits the ground, we'll click her. And let her know, oh, this is like…the first time she did it. I was like, super dad. I was like, oh my God, good girl honey!. Like the first time we went out with her-granted, it was like the very first weekend that we got her we took her to the park for a picnic. She stood up for like two hours, just standing like on guard. And I was like, okay, this is not desirable. Like, we want you to be able to relax when you come to the park, you know, just to go for a picnic. And then last weekend took her back to the park brought her blanket and put it down. And it took a while, like she was standing for a bit. And as soon as she laid down, first of all, I was shocked, I didn't actually think that she would lay down because the first time we went, she stood up for two hours. But as soon as she laid down, I like clicked, gave her treats. And so I think she's starting to make the association between like, it's still not a sit, but as long as it's down…

 

Annie:

Yeah. I mean, that's basically what you want is some sort of stationing position. And you know, to that end, just shaping her to go to a mat or go to her bed. And actually if you want, we can try doing that a little bit. If you want to position your camera, have you done like shaping to a mat with her at all?

 

Brianna/Aquilla:

So we've… can you explain maybe a little bit about what you mean by shaping, but what we've been doing is like getting her to, like, anytime she gets a reward, we make sure we give it to her on her bed. Like before we have dinner which she's also not good at, she's a big beggar. She's not good yet at leaving us alone when we have food because we predominantly eat on our couch. And so what we've been doing is we've been getting her to go over to her bed. We've been giving her a treat or like a toy that will entertain her while we're eating. And then we will come eat dinner. But in order for her to get the toys, she has to like, do a sit or lie down, right. This way she like…

 

Annie:

And what's her bed. Is her bed like a poofy thing?

 

Brianna/Aquilla:

Well, she's currently, so I will say 92% of the time she lays on it. Like she knows what she's doing. And then the other 8% of the time, she like just burrows it and like lays on part of it. So it's a fluffy, it's a fluffy mat and that's normally what it looks like.

 

Annie:

Oh, okay. So yeah, it's a pretty flat thing.

 

Okay. So I think what you're doing is really smart. Like you're giving her stuff in the spot you want her to be in. And so when I'm talking about shaping, you know, we're, it's different ways that we get behavior, capturing is like pinpointing the moment that it happens, right. And then that's where we're, you know, using a clicker to pinpoint a moment. Luring is when we're kind of bringing them somewhere, whether we're bringing them there with like a hand or food or whatever. And certainly you can get behaviors purely just by, you know, creating associations, like, hey, there's great stuff on my mat all the time, I think being on the mat is what I want to do, which is what you're doing is awesome.

 

But I like teaching a dog to have a mat that's like a sticky spot is how I think about it. Like I like using, I like using a yoga mat, but you can cut a yoga mat in half. So like something that's just very low to the ground, but what you have there looks actually pretty, you know, like low to the ground. And what you could do and we can, if you want to go grab some treats, we can, or you have some already, we can do this already. We're just going to shape her to go to that mat. And you can start with putting a cue on that all the way to, you know, all the way from the very beginning, whenever that cue is. But also like if you can pick a cue, could be “banana” doesn't really matter. But like the, the presence of the mat can also just turn into a cue of like, that thing is there I know what to do there.

 

And that's one reason it's actually nice, I think to have something like a yoga mat that you can like fold up and throw, like throw in your bag and bring with you somewhere is because then you can put that down and whether she's, she's going to know, oh, I need to go to that thing.

 

Brianna/Aquilla:

And it's, yeah, its smaller than a blanket.

 

Annie:

And whether she's sitting or lying down on it. And it doesn't really matter. It's just information for her of like, oh, this is where, this is where my ladies want me to be right now. And actually it,you know, that, the other nice thing about like a yoga mat is like, you could cut it eventually down to like a really small piece. And it's just information for her of like, that's where I want.

 

And again, you know, the sit, you could teach her to go there and sit. You could teach her to go there and lie down. You could teach her to go there and, you know, roll over. But the idea is like, when she's there, she's there.

 

And another tool that I, that I recommend all the time and is good for stuff like you're doing where you're going to be like on the couch and you want her to be on her spot, but you don't want to have to be like, getting up constantly to like, go give her a treat. I mean, of course you could, you could get into habit of giving her food in a toy on her mat while you're eating. So, cause that's gonna like extend the length of her meal time so that she's going to be less likely to bother you, it's going to help tire her out. I mean, I think, I think every dog can benefit from getting all of their food in some combo of training and toys. And I'm happy to recommend some more specific toys.

 

But I also really have the Treat and Train. It's like $125. It's a treat dispenser that has a remote control. And I like using that for lots of different things. It's not like.. it's like pretty old school. It doesn't have like cameras and Bluetooth and like fancy stuff. It's just like a button that you push and trees come out.

 

Brianna/Aquilla:

Inaudible..

 

Annie:

What did you say?

 

Brianna/Aquilla:

I said, we're home all the time. We don't need a camera.

 

Annie:

And yeah. Except that's out there, it's like fancy and cool, but like, this is like idiot proof, just push button thing comes out runs on batteries and it si's on the floor and yeah and you can set up, you could, you could sit, you know, 10 feet away or your couch or wherever and just trigger it every time she's on the mat and being quiet. You could set it on a timer, so it was just like, you know, every 20 seconds it's popping out a treat. It's, it's a cool tool in that way. And you can totally use that with like kibble or any variety of dry, dry treats. So I think those are totally worth the investment, but let's see if we can do some shaping with her to a mat.

 

So why don't you position the camera? Get some treats ready. So if you have a treat pouch, that's cool, or else just one of you, why don't you get treats going in one hand? I want you to put, if you're going to put in hand, put it in like whatever your non-dominant hand is and you can, you know, start out.

 

Oh, she's so beautiful.

 

Why don't you start out? Just putting like a few treats on that mat so that she, without any cue or anything, just dribble them on the mat and let her enjoy them on the mat for a moment. Yeah. You're just solidifying like, oh, this is where I want you to be girl.

 

And then why don't we deliver… so we're going to have to give her a treat to get her like, to, cause we want to like reset her. I don't want to reset her like to go too far away, but maybe it looks like you have a tote bag or something on the floor behind her. Maybe kind of like, yeah

 

Brianna/Aquilla:

No that’s a pillow.

 

Annie:

Yeah like where that pillow or whatever is near her tail, ike in that little diamond on your carpet, why don't you put the treat on like on a little, that little diamond on that carpet just to get her off. So just, just to warm her up let's without, you don't even have to use a clicker or anything right now. Just give her that treat on that spot next to the bed so that she sees it's there and then put one on the mat. Yeah. I can't see it though. If you can put it more where Brianna's hand is I think would be better. Cause then I can see it. Yeah, put it on, put it on the ground, like on the carpet in the same spot each time.

 

Brianna/Aquilla:

Right here, look down. For a sighthound you don’t always have food sight.

 

Annie:

Okay. Now put another one on the bed and now put another one, on the carpet. Same spot again on the ground, on the carpet so she can see exactly just, I want her to get in this little, I just want to like bounce her back and forth for a second. I'm trying to make sure I can't see you. You guys holding the treats, but try and make sure she's only seeing the treat that's going down on the mat.

 

So again, now put it back on the bed. One on the bed again, she's like, this is amazing. So was she a racing dog then?

 

Brianna/Aquilla:

She was.

 

Annie:

Is that like still even a thing it's so foreign to me.

 

Brianna/Aquilla:

Yeah. It's actually still the predominant reason why greyhounds are bred. But very few puppies are born in the U S each year that are not racing Greyhound puppies because there was such a problem with… Heidi right here. There was such a problem with breeding and then not adopting out. And so they really limited the amount of dogs that were being bred, not for racing so that the retired racers could be adopted. Yeah.

 

Annie:

So does she have like a racing name?

 

Brianna/Aquilla

She does. It's, “Off with a boom”

 

Annie:

“Off with a boom?” And was she a good racer?

 

Brianna/Aquilla:

I mean, she won five times. She ran 31 races. So she was like good enough to race for a couple of years, but not good enough to stay for very long. But the average age of retiring for greyhounds is two to three years.

 

Annie:

Was she like living in a kennel then, or I don't know how that even works.

 

Brianna/Aquilla:

Yeah, she was living in a kennel. And what they typically do is they like split the litter up. It is right there. Ma'am

 

Annie.

Well, it's a good demonstration of what? I mean, that, that you're putting it on something that's not super plush. It's like a little bit plush, but you can see why the benefit of putting it on something flat.

 

Brianna/Aquilla:

Oh good girl- good sit!

 

Annie:

Okay. So now what I want you to do is now. So we were just building some interest in the bed. She's clearly psyched to be on the bed. Now, what I want you to do, do you have a clicker handy?

 

Brianna/Aquilla:

Yes we do.

 

Annie:

Okay. I want one of you to just click when she puts one foot on that bed, just kind of ignore her there, click there. And now I want you to give her a treat on the bed and then put the second treat back on the floor where you had it and put it down low. Yeah, she doesn't have to sit when she gets there. Now off the bed, on the ground.

 

She’s beautiful. She’s like, I’m here again!

 

Okay. Now give her the treat off the mat. This is a freebie treat. You don't have to click or anything. Just give her a freebie treat the mat on the carpet. Same spot as before. Okay. And now she's going to turn around. I want you to say the word “bed” as she starts to go there just one time. And then I want you to click when she has one foot on that bed and just kind of ignore her until that. And now put the treat off the bed again. So let's why don't you just do that? Like three times.

 

So she's already almost getting four feet on that bed. Let's click. I want you to click when she gets two feet. Now we were doing one. Let's do two. Otherwise keep the exercise exactly the same.

 

And just be real boring. Let her figure it out. Yeah. Good. She's already like four feet. I got four feet mom.

 

Brianna/Aquilla:

She 100%

 

Annie:

Now just to speed her up a little bit, I want you to do everything you've been doing exactly the same, except she's only going to get the treat off the mat. Now, no more treat on the mat. Again, this is just so we can get some more reps of her going on and coming off, going on and coming off. So give her the treat off again.

 

Oh God that I love her, she’s so cute. I just want to snuggle her.

 

Have you been to our studio?

 

Brianna/Aquilla:

No.

 

Annie:

Do you know about our school yard?

 

Brianna/AquillaI think we learned about School for the Dogs from a friend who had a puppy and that's where he puts the puppy to get trained. So I think that's…

 

Annie:

We have an off-leash…what, who's your friend, maybe I know the dog's name.

 

Brianna/Aquilla:

Sherman?

 

Annie:

The dog’s named Sherman or the human?

 

Brianna/Aquilla:

Argo- also called Gogo

 

Annie:

Oh, it sounds familiar. Is it like a brown lab?

 

Brianna/Aquilla:

Yes.

 

Annie:

Yeah. I have a memory.

 

Brianna/Aquilla:

Okay. We got to get back up to get that treat.

 

Annie:

Yeah. She's like, hold on, these are good.

 

Well we have what's called School Tard, which is like an off-leash trainer supervised playtime.

 

Okay. Now click that. And now the treat is going to be delivered on the rug. Good.

 

So yeah, bed, click, and then deliver on the rug.

 

Great. This is great.

 

And I, so we, you know, when you're shaping of any behavior, you're always starting with like very low criteria and raising the criteria little by little and clearly she she is skipping the steps. I mean, we can start with one paw, to two paws and go to three paws, but she's already at four paws. So if you wanted to wait for four paws, now you could wait for that, I think

 

Brianna/Aquilla:

We do a lot of her kinds of behaviors on her bed? So she definitely has understood that this is like where she needs to be.

 

Annie:

Great, good. Well, it's great for her to have…

 

Oh look at that.

 

Oh yeah. You, what if you want, just to push it, like, by the way, next time you do this, start from scratch. Like, you know, start from one paw. Like you can build it up practice this other rooms, if you want to get another mat to, you know, like a yoga mat to try that with, go for that, do that. And just, again, start from the beginning when we set it up, always set it up to be super easy.

 

But let's go, let's go crazy and see if we can, I'm doing like a sped up version of this kind of, because you can take every step that we've done and do it for 20 minutes. Like you don't have to go as fast as we're going, but I also, I don't want her to be bored. And I want to show you guys where it's going. And you know, the shaping process, you know, for now we're doing like one foot, two foot, three foot, four foot, but shaping is like a constant thing. So it was like is she able to do this on a new mat? That's a new criteria. Is she able to do it in a new part of the room? Is she able to do it and then stay there for three seconds?

 

Brianna/Aquilla:

That's what we want. We want to be able to have her like, butt to ground and then to be able to like take her food bowl and put it in the food like holder and then say like “yours” or “okay”. So then like tell her to go get the food.

 

Annie:

I think if you, if you devote 10 minutes of this, 10 minutes to this a day, you can, you'll be there in a week is my guest.

 

So let's do just a little bit more working towards that goal. I'm just trying to explain like how you can shape other things because also like shaping her to do this outside is going to be a new thing. Again, you're going to start from scratch, but it can be a great way to teach her to relax outside. And if you have a mat that you've worked on inside with her a lot, you know, it's going to be…

 

Brianna/Aquilla:

We typically use this blanket and that’s the one I brought to the park.

 

Annie:

That's awesome. You guys are great. I'm still happy to talk to you guys.

 

All right. So let's just try again. What I want you to do now is basically just what you were doing. And again, the treat off the mat, that's just to reset her and to build up a little speed because often when we can get more reps in a shorter amount of time, things just like solidify a little bit better for them. And they get to a zone of like, I go here I go there I go here, go there.

 

So except this time, let's see if you can wait for her to go lie down on the bed before you click. And I'm having you guys add the cue of the word “bed” from the beginning. Again, I think she's probably just going to go there on her own so it's not really that important to me if you say the word “bed” or not, but it doesn't hurt to say it. What,

 

Brianna/Aquilla:

Is it “bed” before she gets on or when she gets on?

 

Annie:

Whenever you're adding a cue, you want to be saying it when she's about to do the thing, anyway, kind of like, like when I think of it, like when I'm teaching my daughter a new word, you know, I'm like “mug,” you know, like, I'm not like, you know, “mug” like, you want to make the association between the cue and the behavior as clear as possible. You're not asking her to do it at this point. You're just connecting it “bed.”  So at this point, you're just like attaching the word to the thing she's doing anyway.

 

Okay. Now just like be boring and let's just see what she does. And I want you to be ready to click the second she moves into anything that looks like a sit.

 

Click. Yes. good. And now try rewarding her. If you want to reward her in that position, that's fine. And then give her a bonus treat off or if you want to reward her just off. Okay. Same thing. Let's do exactly the same. That was beautiful.

 

Oh what a love….

 

Again, I would keep doing exactly what you're doing just to solidify this for a little bit, but just because I'm not going to be here talking to you again in three days. I just want to show you how you're then now I'm going to work this into a stay.

 

So next time. Good. Next time she does it. I want you, after she sits now our criteria, we're always changing the criteria, you know, only in little increments. I want it to be like, when she sits, I want you to count to like two in your head and then click.

 

Okay, great.

 

Yeah. Good. Okay, perfect. Lovely. And you could, and to encourage her to like, stay there, you could now just like, just give her like every five seconds, give her a treat while she's sitting there. And that's also helping her to be like, god, all I need to do is just sit here and be chill. I know. And then you can, and then you can, you know, start to fit your criteria can start being like, will she do this while I turn my back and walk away? You know, make sure you don't get in the habit of staring at her during training. So ‘cause you don't want her to be like, as long as they're looking at me, I must stay put you want to..

 

Brianna/Aquilla:

It’s very difficult because the first thing she learned was “look” and so now see like it's just like in our eyes all the time, oh I know I am going to get treats.

 

Annie:

 

Yeah, yeah. Well then even, even just like facing her, but moving your eyes away, you know, again, shaping is about like the absolute smallest increments that she can handle. But just be cognizant of like, I'm going to look away from her. And you know, you're lucky because you have each other, so you can, you know, you can critique each other, don't stare at it while you're doing it. But you guys, you guys have a beautiful dog, there.

 

Brianna/Aquilla:

Thank you.

 

Annie:

I'm in love with her and  I've only met her on a screen.

 

Brianna/Aquilla:

Yeah. She’s a super moosh.Everybody who meets her is like, oh my God.

 

Annie:

Great. Well, keep doing what you're doing. Yeah. I suggest doing the Good Dog Training course itself. Let me know if you have any problems logging in. We're, we're experimenting like with this sort of communities feature in like for people who bought the course recently, it's like totally like super beta mode, but I'm going to invite you guys if you want to.

 

Brianna/Aquilla:

Yeah that would be great.

 

Annie:

Don't judge, you're there to help us figure out if we could get this to work. And if you can get down to our studio, I know it's a trek from where you are, but I would highly suggest coming to do our School Yard. There is a little like sort of quiz online that we ask people to do to make sure that like, you know, you're understanding sort of the bigger picture. I'm sure you guys will pass with flying colors. And then the first session is an evaluation to make sure that it's like a right fit for her. But even if you were able to come, like it's members only, we approve all the dogs that are there, there's a trainer, they're a hundred percent of the time. We have like a large like outdoor, so we have a large downstairs area and then upstairs we have like a smaller like indoor outdoor area where we're trying to be like super conscientious about like keeping it small. I mean, obviously for the dogs, but also for the humans.

 

Yeah,  I think if you guys came and if you guys, you know, were able to come even just like twice a month for a couple months, I think you will learn a lot that will help you be better at negotiating dog parks when you go to like the public dog park.

 

Brianna/Aquilla:

I didn’t know the physical location is open right now.

 

Annie:

Yeah. Our hours are limited for the moment, the retail shop, also, if you come you can see, we have like tons of work to eat toys and treats and whatever. Our retail area is open right now for the moment, 12 to 4 Sunday through Wednesday. And then we have School Yard and all other kinds of things happening at hours that are outside those times. But yeah,  I highly highly suggest that. I mean, if only because it's, if you know, I would definitely suggest getting her some work to eat toys and you can like see them all in person there. I mean, you can also just go to our website, but yeah, come on down.

 

Brianna/Aquilla

She has a chew toy that she has to chew around. Would it be like rubber? I don't know…

 

Annie:

A busybone?

 

Brianna/Aquilla:

Yeah. It inhibits her from getting the full treat at one time to see struggles with like actually biting things to get food out of them. She does not understand the kong, she just licks them. And then it's like it doesn't come out then, like she kind of ignores it

 

Annie:

Yeah the kong is like not my favorite toy, because I think it's kind of like the OG  dog toy and like, God bless them for making it. But it it's, it can be hard for them to get the food at the end. It’s like a generally better for like putting peanut butter in and just kind of letting them like, get the, you know, lick peanut butter out.

 

I really like… we carry a toy called the Toppl, which is kind of like a Kong, but it's wider, it has a wider lip. I t kind of looks like a thimble. But I give my dog a lot of his meals in that. And it works well with like wet food and raw food or dry food. Actually, you can even use it with dry food. You can put two of them together to use it with dry food. Slow food bowls. Do you know what a slow food bowl is? Like, my dog gets a lot of meals that have slow food bowls. It's like really just as easy as dumping food in a regular bowl, except…

 

Brianna/Aquilla:.

Well, we also dog sat a dog that had their food put into a ball. And then they rolled the ball throughout the apartment and the kibble  would drop out and stuff like that. Yeah.

 

Annie:

So, yeah, there's kind of like categories of toys, like, like there's like Kong-liketoys, and then I call them like kibble ball toys. The Bob-a-Lot is oneI like a lot that we have, that's like, like weighted at the bottom, but it has a hole in the side.

 

So, yeah. You know, anything you can do to help her get out any amount of energy in the apartment, you know, especially on a rainy day like today and, you know, living in New York city and you have a Greyhound I mean, I suggest doing all of that stuff and, you know, you know, getting three or four toys and then just alternating them and and giving, you know, giving them to her on her mat.

 

So my assignments for you is check out-do the school yard application and see if you can find a time to come by again. I know it's maybe like distance wise, like a big commitment, but if you could do a couple of times, I think you'll get something out of it. Do the Good Dog Training online course and let me know if you have any questions at all.  I'm going to invite you to this community we're trying out. And then I, I suggest, just think about food. If you want to listen to this podcast episode, Truth about pet foods. I did it like maybe three months ago. You can find it if you go to School for the Dogs podcast or you can just go to truthaboutpetfood.com, I think it is, and buy her list. I think it's $10, but I'm really, like, I really will never feed any dog of mine, anything other than what she recommends. Like, she convinced me in our conversation that like, it's just that important.

 

So, because you're just starting out with your dog, I offer you that. I mean, again, I fed my dog, you know, like nothing special dry food for like half of his life. And he lived to be, I mean, he's still alive, knock on wood and he's pretty healthy, but I do think that like there, you can extend their life and improve their quality of life based on like the quality of food. And, and like, there's some really great options out there that are like, a lot of them won't break the bank and actually on her website too she has like recipes and stuff.

 

So and I say this all being like, I'm not like actually like a health nut kind of person. I think like, if we can, if we can you know, anything we can o to make our dogs happy, healthier and whatever. And it's certainly there, they're usually psyched to eat things that are delicious. Sounds like she's not too picky, which is good news. And the dry food. I'm like, yeah, she has a dry food that you like, you know, you use those as treats.

 

Well, so nice to meet you guys. Thanks for, thanks for letting me record this. I'm going to try and put it up on the podcast. Maybe it'll help other people. But I also just hope you'll stay in touch and let me know how things go.

 

Brianna/Aquilla:

Definitely. Thank you so much.

 

Annie:

Take care. Have a great day. Bye-Bye

Annie:

Right after I did this session with Aquilla and Brianna and Heidi, Maggie Wood another trainer in New York city sent an article to me and some other trainers by the Norwegian dog trainer and writer, Turgid Rugas that made me think about Heidi. It's about sitting and dogs. I wanted to share this article which you can find at turgid-rugas.no- I’ll post it in the notes,

 

“When, where, and how to dog sit?

Sit is usually the first people teach their puppies, without thinking about the consequences or why they do it.

 

We wanted to know more about the sit, so many years ago we started the sit study among my dog trainer students, and it has been an ongoing study for 20 years now, with amazing results.  Several thousand dogs have been observed, and we learnt many things we did not know before.

 

First, we learnt that if dogs have the choice, they do not sit very often. They stand, lie down, and sit in some particular situations.

 

It is partly related to breed, age, structure, and physical health, so can vary from dog to dog, but in general all dogs sit much less by choice than we ask them to. It is not the preferable thing for them to do, and we need to listen to them.  Nature knows best.

 

Looking at the reasons for that, we could clearly see what it was about

 

  1. It takes a lot of muscles and power to sit down and get up. It takes a long time for babies to get muscles and strength enough to do it. Also for puppies. They simply have not muscles enough to do all the sitting we ask of them, and they will get pain, and jeopardize the joints by doing it too often and too long. Therefore, they sit crookedly, stretching legs forward, and lie down quickly. It gets too painfull. – During training sessions they are sometimes asked to sit 10-20 and up to 60 times.  Imagine how those muscles might ache and bother the puppy. Try to do it yourself!

 

  1. The same will happen when they get old and lose muscles again. Never ask an old dog to sit! It might very well cause him great pain. – Some dogs have a structure that is not good for sitting – like hounds, with their long thighs.

When puppies are born, they are not complete, and X-rays show that joints are not connected to the sockets yet, they actually float around. They will slowly grow to connect, but it takes many months. Making them sit means they might pop out of position because there are not muscles enough either to keep them in place. That can cause damages for life.

 

  1. When puppies are born, they are not complete, and X-rays show that joints are not connected to the sockets yet, they actually float around. They will slowly grow to connect, but it takes many months. Making them sit means they might pop out of position because there are not muscles enough either to keep them in place. That can cause damages for life.

 

My students observed dogs sitting when they wanted to, and the results were overwhelming:

 

Hounds in most cases never sat. They lied down directly.  Dogs with health problems the same. Old dogs too. Healthy strong adult dogs sat, but far from as much as we ask them to. One dog sat once in a 3 month period.

 

Studies like that tell us much about what is natural and right for dogs, and we should respect that.

 

Reasons for sitting:

  1. First and foremost, they sat down when they needed to look at something at a distance. Then they have to raise their heads and curve the neck to be able to do it, because of the position of the eyes. The neck gets painful after just seconds, so they sit down to straighten out the curve of the neck. – This was the overwhelmingly highest number of why they would sit down.
  2. Secondly, they sat as a mid-station between lying and standing.
  3. Then far down on the list came sitting as a calming signal, trying to calm someone down.

We also had learnt behaviour, so if you ask your dog to sit when getting food, going out the door and so on very often, they will do it by habit. But that does not mean it is good for them.

 

Should you ask your dog to sit?

 

I advise you to observe your dog first.

  • Does he sit down easily, or does it look a bit hard, doing it slow, not willingly? Then you should not.
  • Do you know that your dog has a physical problem, is old or very young and therefore does not have developed muscles yet? Then you should not.
  • Do you have a hound or dog with hound shape you should not.
  • Do you have a very heavy breed he will need so much more power to sit and get up that you should not ask him either. And absolutely never a puppy from a heavy dog breed.

 

Observe your dog sitting:

  • Does he sit down straight when he sits by himself, or does he sit with one or two hind legs stretched forward, sit on one «ham», or in other awkward way? Then I would not ask my dog to sit ever. He should choose to do it by himself.

 

Studies by some Veterinary high schools showed that:

  • Sitting for more than a couple of minutes disturbed the blood circulation so much that the occular pressure could make a dog get sight problems or even get blind if they had to do it often.

 

Conclusion:

  • You can ask your dog to sit if he is not a very young dog, an old dog, has physical problems or has a hound structure, or being big and heavy.
  • Even adult, healthy, muscular dogs should not sit often and for long, so keep it to a minimum.
  • Let dogs choose if they want to sit, lie down, or stand.  That is their right to do so.

After having made all kinds of dogs sit in training and competitions for 30 years, I started to notice the above mentioned things, and started to question the need for that exercise, so therefore

 

I stopped asking dogs to sit 22 years ago, and just told myself that if I ever needed to teach a dog to sit, I could do it without any problems. I have never felt I needed it. Dogs do all I want them to, without any sit commands.

 

If you yourself want to sit, sit!

If you want your dog to sit, think twice!

 

Thanks so much for listening. You can support school for the dog podcast by subscribing leaving a five star review, telling your friends and shopping in our online store. Learn more about school for the dogs and sign up for lots of free training resources on our website storeforthedogs.com.

 

 

Links:

School for the Dogs' Online Dog Training Courses

Good Dog Training Online Course

Dog Training In 21 Days Online Course

Body Language Basics Online Course

Tricky Trainers treats

Episode 63: “A Pet Food Killed My Dog: Susan Thixton & The Truth About Pet Food”

https://truthaboutpetfood.com

Episode 81: “Be your dog's superhero: A interview with UK-based trainer and pet business coach Dominic Hodgson”

Treat & Train – Remote Training Tool

Toppl by West Paw

Annie Grossman
annie@schoolforthedogs.com