27 NovEpisode 100 | Creating gear for dog adventurers: Meet Ruffwear designer Liz Zarro
Meet Liz Zarro, a young designer at Oregon-based dog gear company, Ruffwear, which specializes in making products that help dogs and humans have outdoor adventures together. Liz and Annie discuss how Ruffwear's innovative products are developed, the thinking that goes into designing gear meant to please both dogs and humans, and how the products we use can affect how dogs are trained. You'll learn about the thought process behind everything from treat pouches to dog seatbelts and more.
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Mentioned in this episode:
Home Trail Hip Pack by Ruffwear
Treat Trader by Ruffwear
Transcript:
[Intro and music]
Liz Zarro:
My name is Liz Zarro, and I'm a product designer and developer at Ruffwear in Bend Oregon. Ruffwear is an outdoor dog gear company. We basically design and develop the items that you would need to take your dog out on adventures with you and enable those outdoor pursuits. So things like dog boots, harnesses, backpacks, we kind of specialize in that area.
Annie:
And you studied in Bend, right? Isn't Ruffwear in Bend. Am I right?
Liz:
Yes. Ruffwear is in Bend.
Annie:
And when you were going to school there in Oregon then, was Ruffwear kind of a spot that you thought, wow, that would be a great place to work as a dog lover and designer?
Liz:
Yes, I did. Yeah. When I was in college, actually, I sent an email to Ruffwear to see if they needed an intern or any extra help on their design team. And at that time I got an email back that was basically saying that at this time we don't really need any help in that area.
But fast forward a few years, after I had graduated and I was working as a freelancer. Ruffwear came back, and they did need a little extra help. And so I was able to freelance with their team, before I was offered a full-time job, and being able to move to Bend and join the team to make great performance dog gear. That was definitely like a dream come true.
Annie:
Ruffwear as a brand, it sells at REI. Do you think that's how a lot of people discover it?
Liz:
I do. I think that, who I would consider our sort of core base, so outdoor and dog lovers, that sort of cross section. To me, that's a total REI customer. For those people shopping at REI for other things, and then seeing Ruffwear, I think that is a big way that we become known.
Annie:
Yeah, it's interesting because REI doesn't carry a whole lot of pet gear. So it's like the gear that they do carry, I guess, seems like it would have some kind of great stamp of approval on it. Because like I was saying, you know, you guys have huge fans, we carry it at my online store, storeforthedogs.com. We carry a lot of different brands and I don't think any sort of thing, any specific brand has as big of a fan group. Have, have you, have you experienced the Ruffwear fandom?
Liz:
You know, yeah, I kind of have, and I know that there is a Facebook group. I'm not super knowledgeable about those aspects, but I do know there's a Facebook group called Ruffwear Addicts. And they're on top of it, man, like they know about [inaudible] and they know about new products and it's pretty cool to see what resonates and what doesn't with that group because they're allowed a voice. And, yeah, we're listening.
Annie:
So I’d love it if you could tell me a little bit about the home trail hip pack, which I know is a product that you helped design. From what I understand, it was like Ruffwear’s attempt to kind of combine two other products of yours. Is that right? The, the Treat Trader and the stash bag, maybe you can explain what those two products are, actually.
Liz:
What the stash bag is a leash bag for pickup bags or small items that you need on walks. The treat trader is a treat specific pouch for training. The home trail hip pack was basically taking those two items, distilling them down, and compiling it into this one grab and go piece that you can just snatch up on your way out on a walk. And you know that it’s got treats in it, it's got space for your phone, easy access for your keys. Just all of those sort of steps, well laid out in that product.
Annie:
What inspired you to put this together?
Liz:
So what's funny is that's actually a very personal product for me. I have always liked using a hip pack for the adventures I go on with my dog because, I, being a gal, my pockets are not very large usually, if I have them, my outdoor clothes may not have pockets. So like if I'm wearing leggings, for example, there may not be pockets in those. And, I just find myself constantly juggling, cell phones, keys, treats, pick up bags.
So I really was just over it. I was over the juggle. And I really just wanted to have one place where I could easily access and store all of the major things that I need to have a successful outing with my dog. I felt like if I could design it for that process, which is a process that many people go through, then hopefully it would resonate.
That's sort of how it starts. And then we go into greater field testing and introducing it to a lot of testers and a lot of users prior to it going to market. So we can make adjustments based on a greater audience. But that's where a lot of the inspiration came from, was me and my dog Bernie.
Annie:
Tell me about Bernie. How did he come into your life? What kind of dog is he?
Liz:
He is a great dog. He is a Rez dog. He came from the warm Springs reservation here in central Oregon. And, he's a mixed bag, but very handsome boy. He's about 75 pounds and mostly brown with a black muzzle.
I bought him as a puppy, and he was at the shelter with his mom and two other litter mates. He's had a couple of hardships. After I got him, it became pretty apparent that he had a pretty severe separation anxiety. Being a new dog owner to a puppy, I felt like I was trying to do it on my own, and watch YouTube videos and try to figure it out. And I realized in that process that there's a time when you should call a professional and you should really just get some one-on-one help to make sure you're setting your pup up for a life of success.
So, I ended up working one-on-one with a behaviorist, with him as a puppy to get him to become more confident and more independent and to feel comfortable on his own when leaving him at the house. It was a process and he's great now, like he stays home often. He goes on walks. He can sort do all the good stuff. But yeah, he's my bud.
Annie:
Aw, well, I'm glad that you got some training help and if you have any questions I can help you with in the future, let me know. But iit's interesting that you make products that are both for dogs and humans. And, I would think that both dog and human behavior is part of the development of the products you make, and what you were dealing with was a behavior issue. Did it spark ideas for you for, for products?
Liz:
Yes, absolutely. So, when I was working with Bernie — he's now, he's almost five. But when I was working with him and the behavior, that was when I realized there wasn't a treat pouch that I liked on the market. And, it was really the beginning of the treat trader, which is a product that we saw.
Annie:
Oh, so you were you the designer who developed that?
Liz:
Yeah.
Annie:
So tell me about that trader and that one, also the treat trader,that interlocks in a way with the home trail hip pouch, right?
Liz:
Yeah, yeah, it totally does. So the Treat Trader was a really fun project. When I was designing that, I would walk my dog to and from my house and the office where he would also work with me. But it's about a two mile walk each way, which was great for him as a puppy and great for me to practice training with the Treat Trader and working on our relationship that way.
And like you said, some of these are products for people and dogs, and I think that's important to recognize because we're asking these critters to come and hang out with us in our world. And it's a lot of responsibility for the person. With the Treat Trader, I really wanted to make that product accessible, comfortable, minimal, and I wanted it to be something that people wanted to use. Wanted to have on their body, because hopefully that would promote better training.
But, yeah, so that whole process took place between he and I. And, the Treat Trader is a product that can also interlock onto the home trail hip pack. So there are two gear loops on the side of the Home Trail Hip Pack, and you can slide the belt clips onto those loops, which I like to do. You could also take the Treat Trader and use the belt clip on the waistband of the Home Trail Hip Pack.
What I have recommended that sort of application for is if you've got two different types of treats you're using, so if you have a very high value and then sort of your biscuit or crunchy treat that you've got more of, you could separate those two and know where your treat values are in that way.
The other thing about the Treat Trader that's nice is when you open and close that you can do it with one hand, it's got a magnet, and it creates a very solid snap noise. When the magnet is pressed up against the metal form in the bag. It creates this snap. And that I found to be a very, positive, audible cue for dogs when you're using the product. This would be after — it wouldn't be the same as the clicker. It would be after they've already done something that you wanted to reward them. But it's one more thing that just sort of reinforces that good behavior or whatever it is that, you might be rewarding your dog for.
Annie:
Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. Well, it also could be if you're doing it, regardless of — like, if your dog is just walking ahead of you and you go in and get a treat out of the pouch and it makes a clicking noise or snapping noise, that could be a cue for your dog to turn back to you. That's going to be easy to teach because your dog is going to be like, Oh, every time I hear that noise, she ends up giving me a treat. So, you know, that could become the cue. That's really cool
So one thing I love about the Home Trail Hip Pack, wait, why is it called the Home Trail? Is that because you're using it at home and on the trail? I don't understand the name.
Liz:
Yeah, so the naming, it happens in marketing, so I'm not quite up on all of that. I think that the concept was it's like, the trails around your home. So kind of your go-to trails or your frequented trails. And I can think of like two trails that Bernie and I walk on.
Annie:
Like your home trails. Maybe I'm just too much of a New York City person to think of the idea of like a home trail, cause I'm going to wear this New York City.
So one thing I love about it though, is the color scheme, which is really cute and really unusual. It's — well, there's the blue one, but the one that I found to be the more popular one is navy, teal and burgundy. And black. Would you say those are the correct colors?
Liz:
Yes.
Annie:
Was this your creation and how did you come up with this?
Liz:
Yeah, yeah. So that one's my favorite as well. That's the color scheme that is my choice to wear around. And with that color scheme, we really wanted to show out of our customer base that like, this is a fun product. This is something like you and your dog are going to have a great time wearing this thing. It's going to be comfortable and it's going to energize you. And we really wanted to bring that energy and that vibrancy into the color scheme.
At the same time we wanted it to be sort of like anyone could pick it up. So it's not like it's hot pink or any super polarizing color in there, but it's really vibrant and very unique looking. And so finding that balance of uniqueness and energy without leaving our customers behind and with a lot of the trend research we do, we do look at the outdoor industry heavily. And, those colors juxtaposed comes up often with a number of inspirational outdoor brands. So, that was also in our thought process as we're making those selections.
Annie:
Oh, so there are other products by other companies that you thought would look good with this.
Liz:
Well, yeah, so the burgundy, teal, navy sort of juxtaposition. There are jackets in the outdoor industry that use those stylings. And this goes back to that REI question. So we try to look at some of the other brands that REI carries, and think about if our customer is shopping at REI, they might be purchasing a jacket or a backpack from REI for themselves. And if we're designing these products, we want them to flow seamlessly into the life of that customer. So pulling inspiration from those products that might already be in someone's closet, that definitely goes into the thought process for color selection.
Annie:
Oh, so interesting. Were you also involved in the new river Canyon color scheme, which is a limited edition collection and of these products that are — it's also kind of cool. It's like a rust, mustard and navy, I guess.
Liz
Yep. Yep. We designed those and that was, the color scheme that I came up with as well.
Annie:
Some people were saying on, I think on the Facebook group that it looks very eighties, was that an inspiration for it?
Liz:
Actually the inspiration, it goes back to the outdoor industry. And we wanted to do a limited edition to kind of see what resonated with our customers. We're seeing these trends in the outdoor industry, but we don't want to lose our customer base. And so this was a way for us to do a more extreme color story, but in a small batch to reduce the risk and see how it resonates with our customers.
When you see the products in person, they're a little more muted than what I would consider to be eighties. Like it's not that super high vibrancy, high saturation, and the colors themselves. But I could definitely pick up on that 80s vibe, especially with the mustard-y, and the orange, the brick sort of red-orange in there. Those definitely feel very eighties to me.
Annie:
Yeah. It's funny because I wouldn't, I mean — I think of the eighties more of like neon colors, not these. Like neon pink and turquoise. Well, this is turquoise, I guess, but I think of it more of bright colors and these are like these actually sort of very muted, muted colors that are unexpected and really, really nice together.
So what other products have you worked on for Ruffwear?
Liz:
Um, let's think so. The designers in addition to doing new designs, so like the Home Trail Hip Pack, the Treat trader, the Stash Bag, those would have been considered new designs when they were launched. We also do redesigns of our products. So, apparel, harnesses that are currently in the market. When they got updated, the designers, basically looking at the product, reading customer reviews and trying to figure out how we can improve it to better meet the needs of our users.
And so a lot of what we do is just improving on the products that we already have available. So some other things that I've recently worked on, there've been some prints that we've launched in our fleece climate changer jacket. That I created, and that we applied to the fleece to sort of reach our customers with those stories.
And at the same time, when we wanted to explore that new color application, I had also been working on developing a fleece pullover jacket. All of our jackets have a closure system, so buckles or zipper that really, the pullover was a venture to see, can we design a jacket that doesn't have any hard closure? So no buckles, no zipper, just the stretchy fleece. And it’s a technical fleece pullover jacket.
And with this product, we really wanted to focus on the issue of dogs with really sensitive skin or really short coats. They on occasion can experience rubbing on their arms when they're wearing apparel. And so with the pullover, we, in addition to removing the plastic pieces, we also develop this brand new cap sleeve form around the dog shoulders that kind of ergonomically wraps.
So that the back of the dogs armpit when they're wearing the pullover, it patterns in a way that helps retain some of that body heat the dogs will expel from their armpit area, while also allowing full range of motion when the legs are in a running position. So when they're sort of extended forward.
And so that, that was a new piece of apparel that we designed. And again that kind of — my dog who has a short coat, and his arms will rub sometimes, if we're wearing jackets for long periods. So that definitely went back to some of my own experiences, but it was an issue that we were hearing a lot from our customers. And so we really wanted to try to address that as best we can.
Annie:
One product I'm really curious about is, is the Ruffwear Load Up Harness, have you worked at all on that?
Liz:
You know, that was, that was around before I had joined the team, but I do know a little bit about it, and how it's used and, sort of the thought process around that.
Annie:
The reason I’m curious about it is because I think the idea of a harness for the car, like a car seatbelt, is still foreign to many people. And, and as a product designer, I'm wondering how you go about developing something that needs to be so safe. And I know there's testing that's involved in, in the dog harnesses as well, if I'm not mistaken.
Liz:
Yep. You're correct. And with a lot of what we do at Ruffwear is, we have these “we believe” statements that we sort of follow those mantras, and one of them is, we believe in designing from a dog perspective. So, when it came to the car harness, we've been getting requests from a lot of customers that they wanted us to come out with something that would keep their dogs from becoming a distraction in the cars. I think how a lot of laws sort of frame that scenario.
And the way that we went about with this development was we didn't want it to feel very restraining against the dog's body. So the harness is designed in a way that allows the dogs to lay down in the back seat, comfortably and sit up. So, as I'm driving with my dog, he might be laying down, he might want to sit up and look out the window. This harness allows them to have that sort of motion.
And in addition to allowing them to have that motion, we also tested the harness basically, in these drive test configurations that are, in a lab and they’re standardized. And so they use a weighted dog form in the harness and sort of simulate a hard stop on the sled and, measure basically the distance that the hard forms move.
Annie:
So do you put your dog in one of these when you're going to your car?
Liz:
Well, honestly I don't. But I will say that, in certain areas it is required. And so I think if it was a requirement, I would, but my dog, he's pretty lazy. I've never really had an issue with him exploring the front seat area of the car. He is quite big, so he just sort of lays and doesn't really move much. But it does come to the front of my mind when we go on road trips, just because we'll be in the car for awhile and safety should be a priority. But, yeah, being a little honest here [laughs].
Annie:
Do you have a favorite product?
Liz:
Well, I've got some go-to products and I have a favorite and I don't know if I can say too much about it, but, if folks listening are familiar with our commuter backpack that we used to have, that was my favorite backpack with my dog. And we would go rock climbing. He would obviously not be climbing, but he would walk out there with me with the commuter pack on, and hang out at the crag.
And we've recently designed a new pack that'll be launching in spring/summer ‘21. We had to discontinue the commuter pack a while ago and this new pack that we're launching to me ticks all of the boxes for those things that I liked in the commuter pack. And so I'm really hoping that the way that this pack has solved problems for me, it'll help solve some of those problems that, our users might be facing. But, yeah, that'll be a brand new product in spring, summer ‘21.
Annie:
Oh, well, that's exciting. Can’t wait to see the colors.
Liz:
Yeah. Very fun colors.
Annie:
And, I'm curious, are there other brands like dog gear brands that you think are cool?
Liz:
Yeah. Yes, I'm definitely intrigued by Rex Specs.
Annie:
Rex Specs. These are what, are they dog goggles?
Liz:
Yes, they are. I personally don't use them for my dog, but a lot of the working dogs, that we have around here who are search and rescue dogs for our mountains. They’ll on occasion use Rex Specs, and other working dogs we also sort of use as our research group use them as well. And it's definitely a very interesting concept. And I think for the working dog community, it is an important piece of gear.
Again, Bernie is a recreational dog, and he doesn’t really need to use Rex Specs. But, for those working dogs, I think that it does make a big difference. And I think it's a pretty cool product, and as a designer, I look at them and I can see that a lot of hard work has gone into developing them. And I definitely appreciate that as well.
Annie:
And they're super cool-looking on a dog. The dogs look like future robot dogs.
Liz:
Totally.
Annie:
Cool. And, any others that are worth mentioning?
Liz:
Um, let me think for just a moment.
Annie:
Or another question is, is Ruffwear a cool company to work for. Like, it seems like it is. We order from there, and we're trying more and more to work with, as much as possible, other sort of mission-driven American small businesses. What's it like being there from the inside?
Liz:
Yeah, it is. It is a cool company. It’s as cool if not cooler than how it might look from the outside, I think. Our president and our founder, they own the company. So being, privately held gives us a lot of flexibility and gives us a lot of freedom. I have a great relationship with the founder and the president. They’re two just very genuine, great, authentic human beings. And the founder, he's actually on the product team. So he is a part of every single product that we launch, in addition to having founded the company.
And as hard as we all work, which is pretty hard, we all really like to have fun and cut loose. You know, when it's not COVID times, we would be having holiday parties and ski days where we just take the day off from work and go up to the mountain and everybody skis or snowboards or snowshoes.
And, yeah, we plan these very, very big get-togethers so the community feels tight and close and welcoming and inclusive. And, yeah, those are all words that I would affiliate with Ruffwear. For how much time we spend at work and, with our teams, it feels like a second family. And I feel lucky to have raised my dog with the Ruffwear family because it's like his community. And, it's like the village that I needed to help me raise my dog.
So I'm very appreciative towards Ruffwear for what they'd given me and for what they've given my dog.
Annie:
Are there any specific dog perks that come with working there?
Liz:
Yeah, I mean, I would say, being able to bring your dog into work, that's a huge plus. You can bring your dog in when you're not a product designer as well, so you don't need to have your dog to help you with your work in order to bring them, and you can bring up to two dogs. Some of our employees have four, sometimes more than four dogs in their ownership. And, you can bring up to two with you into the office.
We have a private dog park running sort of area, that’s got some logs and some rocks, boulders, that you can use as a sort of agility course for your dog, if you want it to just sort of run them around for a little bit.
And I would say the products too, like if you're in the building and I've got some prototypes that I would like to put in people's hands, I’ll just run around the building usually, and see who's going out on the weekend with their dog and do they want to take a backpack or do they want to take a harness or toy? And, I think that's a big perk because everyone is a part of the process, and you've got great gear at your disposal.
Annie:
Has this COVID period affected the designs that you guys are coming up with?
Liz:
Well, it's funny, it's a conversation we have a lot. Sort of where, what is the future? Where do we go? And what's interesting is one thing that's sort of stayed even with COVID is the desire to be outside and the companionship that dogs provide us, especially in our outdoor pursuits.
So really just being authentic to our brand, and being more inclusive. We're working hard to try to reach a wider audience and make our products more accessible to people because we really value the relationship and the wellbeing our dogs provide us when we're out with them and how good that feels. And we really just want everyone to have those experiences.
So I think it's made us more thoughtful and more introspective. But in terms of the products themselves, they're staying true to the brand.
Annie:
Cool. Very cool. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to talk. I think people will find this really interesting. If they want to follow you, do you have a social media place where people can keep in touch with you?
Liz:
Yeah. So you can find me on Instagram. I'm @liz_zarro, and my dog doesn't have an Instagram, but he has a hashtag, he’s #Berniethemutt. If you just want to look at pictures of my dog I think you can follow that hashtag and see that smiling face out there. Thanks Annie. I really appreciate it.
Annie:
You can find over 50 Ruffwear products at storeforthedogs.com, and through the end of the day, Monday that's November 30th, podcast listeners can access a very special discount, 25% off all Ruffwear products in our online shop using the code ruffwear25. If you liked this podcast, shopping in our online store is a great way to show your support. Thanks. Happy holidays.
