18 JunEpisode 12 | What you need to know about the dog flu
This week’s episode is all about the dog flu which has recently swept through the NYC area. I’ve heard different numbers thrown around, but it’s safe to say that somewhere around 100 cases have been diagnosed in New York City in the last month. To learn more, I interviewed Dr. Andrea Y. Tu of Park East Animal Hospital and Veterinary Behavior Consultations of NYC.
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Podcast Episode 12: This is what you need to know about the dog flu
Transcript:
Annie:
Hello humans for this episode. I have interviewed Dr. Andrea Tu, a veterinarian who is with Park East Animal hospital, which is on the upper East side in Manhattan and she also works as a vet with Veterinary Behavior Consultants, which actually sees patients at School For The Dogs. I asked her every question I could think of about the dog flu, which has been a big topic of concern in New York city over the last month or so. I wanted to apologize for the quality of this interview. I spoke to Dr. Tu over the phone and it’s not the greatest, but the information is pretty good. So I wanted to share this recording our phone call despite the not great audio quality. I just wanted to note that I’ve also put up a blog post that has some pretty comprehensive information about the flu and some useful links. You’ll find it in the show notes, but you can go there directly by just typing in the URL schoolforthedogs.com.
Dr. Tu:
There really are kind of two big strains. So, um, the previous strain was one called the H3NH strain that’s been around since about 2004 and it’s found primarily in dog and we believe that jumped over to dogs from horses. Um, and that one, it wasn’t as big of a deal because it’s not as aggressive. It’s not as infectious. The current strain now is the H3N2 strain. And this was a newer strain that was initially found back in 2015 and we believe it jumped from dogs to dog, sorry, from, um, birds from Korea. Um, and basically we rescued all these dogs from Asia and from, from, from folks from Korea. Yeah. So the, the current strain is the H3N2 that we’re concerned about. It was initially found in 2015. It came from birds and then went to the dogs.
We believe it started in Korea. So when we adopted and rescue dogs, all these dogs from Asia traveled with those dogs over to us. And so the 2015 outbreak initially was found in Chicago. We didn’t actually know that the strain existed at that time. Um, and that outbreak lasted for quite awhile. So the current outbreak in New York that we’re dealing with now, we believe came from San Diego and it is, um, it’s not the original strain that caused the outbreak in 2015 in Chicago that came from Chicago to New York. But this one may be the same strain, but it came from potentially a different dog that brought it to San Diego back in around January of this year. And what we are seeing is that in the New York city area, probably around the end of May, we had about 36 cases that were confirmed in Brooklyn. I can go into a little bit about how we confirm those cases.
Then Memorial day happened and everybody decided to board their dogs and all these dogs commingle with all these other dogs. And then about the week right after Memorial day, we had this huge explosion of cases. And at this point it’s not just in Brooklyn, it is in Manhattan and Queens. I believe it might be in Staten Island, but certainly the biggest case numbers are in Brooklyn and Manhattan. And we’ve got about 90 something cases so far this past week. And the cases are still just kind of constantly showing up. There are certain dogs that are more susceptive, other certain dogs that are more susceptible than others. So the difficult thing with this is that it is going to be in social dogs and what we call social dogs would be dogs who go to boarding, who go to daycare, who use groomers, um, who are, you know, just in or out of a foster or shelter situation.
Dogs at pet stores. Dogs in adoption groups. Dogs who do a lot of traveling. If they are traveling just with you for the summer season or if they are part of a show group agility, competition, anything like that. If they are in contact with other dogs, and this is what makes it so difficult because we’re in New York city, they’re walking down the streets of New York city. They are considered social dogs. So they are going to be in contact with other dogs. And it’s the, the reason for that is that this is, it’s an aspect of the virus, right? This is the influence of a virus, which in, in, in the natural environment, it lasts for a long time. So it will live on a surface for 48 hours. It will live on clothing for about 24 hours and it will live on hands if you don’t wash your hands for about 12 hours.
So a dog walking down the street that has this virus that is shedding, this dog is on that street, that street is going to be contaminated for the next next two days unless somebody comes and bleachers the street before the next dog walks through. So in theory, every dog in New York city is considered at risk. Even if your dog doesn’t go to daycare, never sees a groomer other than in your house. And lot of people will say that and I’ll say no, but if the groomer did not change and shower before between each patient or each part, each pet that she or he grooms, then your dog is still considered at risk. So, um, the other thing that is also kind of the, the flip side of this coin is people will say, well, you can be at risk for being exposed, but how many patients are actually going to get sick?
So with our population, because our dog population in New York city is a naive population, which means we’ve not really seen the strain in our area. We’re expecting that of 100% of the population, probably about 80% are going to get infected with this virus. And of that 80%, I would say roughly, probably about 75% of that will get sick. We’ll actually show clinical signs of being sick. The remaining 25% are going to be your type ordinary, so they’re not going to get sick, but they’re still going to continue to shed this virus. And then the next question is, well, which is that what makes your pet susceptible to being the ones that get sick once you get infected? And those are going to be the younger dogs, um, the dogs who, uh, have as other [inaudible] comorbid conditions going on. So for instance, if you have some other sort of illness, um, basically anything that is going to have a hit on your immune system.
So I often get that question for a lot of people will say, but my dog is older, my dog tends to get stressed. Um, I don’t want to give them that vaccine. And that’s really not a good way to go about this because those dogs are going to actually be the ones that are more likely to not just get infected but to break out with disease. So as long as your vet says no, they currently do not have any other illnesses that prevents them from getting the vaccine. Those are actually the pets that I would be more concerned about that being vaccinated.
Annie:
Is it a problem outside, you said it started in San Diego, in the U S and now the New York, is it in other places in the US?
Dr. Tu:
Well so actually this strain started in Chicago in 2015 and we have a new outbreak that started in Chicago of January of this year and went to New York. Um, it is in, in the rest of the areas of the U S and basically every state at this point has been exposed to those strengths or those virus. Um, the question is when it comes to big urban areas like New York city, the spread is, it’s so easy to spread. Um, the other aspect of the virus is that, um, with the strain, do them how contagious it can be. The H3N8, the less aggressive strain, the one has been around for a while. It will, the incubation period is about five to seven days.
So roughly about a week. And then the patient will shed the virus for five days after they start showing clinical signs. Now the H3N2, which is the current outbreak, the incubation period is shorter, so it’s about three to seven days, um, and it will continue to spread the virus. So continue to spread the virus for all for about 24 days after the sign starts. So once a dog becomes infected with this, even if they’re not showing clinical signs in some cases from, or the harboring patients don’t show signs, but dogs who are affected with this will continue to spread it for almost a month. So this outbreak is going to be around for awhile unless we you really kind of are being very proactive about getting those dogs who are currently healthy and able to get the vaccine back from years so we can stop the vicious cycle of going around.
Annie: So what’s the process for this vaccine?
Dr. Tu:
What you’ll need to do is you’ll need to go in twice. Make sure your pet is healthy, is stable for the vaccine, does not currently show any signs of any upper respiratory infections like coughing, like sneezing, um, any sort of changes in their respiratory rate and effort. Um, if you get that initial vaccine and then you need to have this vaccine booster anywhere from two to four weeks after that first shot and then about two weeks after that second shot, then your pet is considered protected against the flu and the, and then that kind of two weeks after that second shot, um, timeframe kind of depends on which, which version of the vaccine that your fed uses. But roughly I would say about if you’re going to vaccinate and then booster two weeks after the initial, you’re looking at about a month lead up time at the soonest before your pet is considered protected against this virus.
Annie:
Are there any risks about giving this vaccine today to any kind of dog?
Dr. Tu:
So the risks are going to be the same as the risk to any of your other vaccines, right? So you always have the potential to be a little more tired after that vaccine. Um, some tests can have a little bit of, um, slightly loose our stool or maybe a little bit of spitting up for the next two days. That’s perfectly expected. Um, in a very small population of patients that might be more pronounced, right? So may be very lethargic, um, or just not able to, you know, not responding to getting up if you ask them to get up. Um, they may have multiple bouts of spitting up or vomiting or they may have a lot of diarrhea. And again, if it happens in the first two days, especially when it comes through the cases of the vomiting or diarrhea, we usually can recommend your veterinarian can recommend some sort of supportive care to help get them through, whether it’s an active diarrhetic or an anti emetic to help stop the vomiting and diarrhea.
Dr. Tu:
Now, within smaller percentage of patients they need develop one of those true anaphylactic reactions. Um, think about somebody who’s allergic to peanuts and has been exposed to peanuts. Um, they could potentially have their face swell up and have trouble breathing, um, or even become really pale and extremely, extremely weak. Um, if that type of reaction is going to happen, that’s going to be within the first few hours of getting that shot. Um, so I would recommend if this is the first time your pet has ever gotten the flu vaccine, then when you take them in and make sure you’re not going to just drop them off at home and then go out for the rest of the evening, it’s good idea just to hang out with them for the next few hours. Um, I will say that the percentage of patients who have that type of reaction is very, very small.
Um, that again, is also very dependent on each individual’s immune system. I so think about how many people in our population are allergic to peanuts or allergic to shellfish. Right? So the chances of you having that allergic reaction to eating a crowd for the first time is really low. Same way for the backseat. The chances of your dog having that type of really severe scary reaction, it’s going to be very low. But if it does happen and you’re at home and you see it, you can rush your pet back to your vet and there are things that we can do to stop that reaction. I will say that we’ve been giving this vaccine day in and day out for about the last two weeks since the outbreak break. I personally have probably given about five or 10 every single day advisor working. I’ve not had any patients have a reaction, more severe than my dog slept for the rest of the day. And that was it.
Annie:
What are the symptoms of the flu and are they different for the two different types?
Dr. Tu:
They’re not really. Um, and the other thing is that the symptoms can also be very similar to other types of, um, upper respiratory infection. So, for instance, things like kennel cough, um, things like canine para influenza, um, things like mycoplasma, they all fall. All are viruses that fall under the, um, kind of broad spectrum with the, the canine infectious respiratory diseases. Um, and so they all tend to can show very similar signs. Um, you can have a mild cough, you can have, um, you can run a fever or you can be lethargic, you can kind of be off of your food. Um, and you may have some of those changes in your respiratory effort or rate that your vet may notice, changes in your inspiratory phase.
So it can be hard to say this is the dog flu versus this is a kennel cough versus you can just have a mild cold going on. And that’s where it’s important to get your dog into your vet and have your vet examine your dog before the vaccine is given. Um, in order for us to really say this is the dog flu.
So if you wait for your dog having been coughing for about four or five days before you bring them in, then that test may not be accurate. Um, the other issue with these tests is that they can take a little while to have the result come back. So if your dog is acting sick, your pet, the veterinarian’s gonna, it’s going to treat that dog. And oftentimes those results don’t come back until after your dog has already been started. A course of treatment potentially even recover from the disease. So it kind of is, um, in some senses it’s almost an academic endeavor to get these tests done. Um, it is a good idea to run these tests, the middle of an outbreak so that we know if this patient is not responding to your treatment course. For instance, oftentimes patients who are sick with the, um, the more severe version of the flu are going to stay sick longer and are not going to respond as well to treatment.
So if your particular pet is not responding to treatment, say seven or eight days inches into the treatment course, you’ve already gotten your sample early on and then you can have a first as a more definitive diagnosis and be more aggressive potentially in your treatment. Um, the other pro to getting a definitive diagnosis with these additional tests is that we have a sense of our herd health, right? We can kind of screen where these cases are going. For instance, I, my GP practice on the Upper East Side. And um, luckily we’re close to the Animal Medical Center and they’d been doing a lot of testing for a lot of these patients who are more sick and who are coming in and they have five come from cases so far from last night. And so that’s one of those cases where, you know, instead of just saying to my patient population on the upper East side, Hey, we know that it’s in Brooklyn and we know that it’s in Manhattan,
I can say more specifically, Hey, I know that 10 blocks from us, they’ve had five confirmed cases. So a lot of times that also helps us kind of monitor the spread of the disease and being able to just confirm that this was truly a flu case and not just a severe kennel cough or something like that.
Annie:
Once a dog has it, what can be done?
Dr. Tu:
So once the dog has this disease, um, because it’s a virus, there really isn’t too much that we can do other than being very aggressive with our supportive care. Right. So what are the clinical signs that each particular pet is developing and, and what can you do to help them through that? If they are running a fever, we may have to put them on IV fluids to bring that fever down. Um, if they’re not eating, we’re going to be giving them supportive nutrients through again through IV or if the dog is really sick, you know, potentially feeding tube, or other types of, um, ways to get this dogs, um, treatments.
Um, if the dog is doing a lot of sneezing and coughing, um, perhaps nebulization just to kind of help clear up some of that discharge. Um, the other thing is if this patient develops a secondary bacterial infection where this is primarily virus and we don’t have great treatments for viruses, but if they have because their immune system has had a hit and they secondarily developed a virus infection, then we can give them antibiotics to address the virus. But a lot of times it is just keeping them, supporting them through this, um, keeping them well hydrated, keeping their temperature at a normal range until their body’s immune system really kind of slice that off. Um, and I know that a good, uh, the question that I’ve been getting for some of my clients is that, well, is there something like a Tamiflu that we can give our dogs to address the virus?
Um, and the answer is that it, if there isn’t, um, we really have no good information that shows either the efficacy or the safety of the use of Tamiflu in dogs. Um, we also know that Tamiflu, if it’s not used within 48 hours, it really doesn’t work. So the chances of your dog telling you, Hey, I’ve been feeling a little off for the last two days and it’s really done. 48 hours are low. So as to be able to get there in that window is limited. And then there’s also the concern of resistance. So, um, and humans, we do see that quick switch of from different strains of viruses. And we also know that in humans when people are misusing it, for instance, taking it too late in the treatment course, um, or just in your kind of using it because they think it’s a virus, um, you could potentially push those viruses into, um, kind of developing more resistant strains. And so we really don’t want that in our dog foods. So as of now, I’ve not known of any vet who is going to be prescribing Tamiflu for, for the dog food.
Annie:
Have you had any dogs who have died from this or do you know if any in New York city?
Dr. Tu:
So we don’t have any cases of dogs who have died from this in New York city yet. I believe the mortality percentage is about 5 to 8% of the patient population who are infected and develop signs. Um, again, we haven’t had any cases in New York yet, but there certainly were cases in Chicago when we had that in that kind of initial outbreak in 2015.
Annie:
So for this business owners like me, people who have places where dogs are coming in and out all the time, other than totally closing our doors and keeping up, keeping up the cleaning protocol that we, we have under, you know, under normal circumstances. Do you suggest, we mandate that people show that their dogs have been vaccinated or is there anything else we can do?
Dr. Tu:
Well, certainly having, making sure your client population is exactly, it is certainly going to help. Um, and again, keeping in mind the, the way that vaccine has to be given. And actually just to, to site to backtrack on that. Um, obviously the dogs was vaccine has been around in the city for a long try, but we also previously had a type of vaccine that only covered one strain, which is the H3N8 the less aggressive strain.
And then once the Chicago outbreak happened in 2015, they developed a new vaccine that covers both strains. So one important question is to check with your vet. Even if you say, Oh, I, I know my dog has had the dog for this, was so worth giving them a call and double check, Hey, did my dog get the version that covers both strains? Because if you’re, if it’s not the version that covers both strains and you are not protected against the current outbreak and you still need to go through that to booster, um, to, to vaccine shots at course to make sure your dog is covered. But step one, for those business owners who are, um, I’m dealing with the large populations, dogs in a small enclosed area. Um, do advise your clients as this, I’m trying to encourage them to get vaccinated. Um, you also want to make sure that you’re really cleaning your facilities, right?
So, um, if you can use them, there are a lot of good cleaners out there, you know, professional grade cleaners, um, as well as long as you are using those cleaners according to the recommendations that the product is um, is telling you to do, then you should be killing off the virus. Um, the key to decontaminating this is really contract time. So depending on your cleaner, you know, anywhere from about one to five minutes of saturated the surface before you wipe it down. Now that can be hard, right? Because you’re oftentimes using a small space and you kind of have to make sure that if, you know, if one patient starts showing signs, then you may have to take everybody out and then decontaminate that place in the nature that one patient that is [inaudible] coughing is not going to be coming back. And it’d be contaminating that surface.
Annie:
I always suspect, I always suspect that dog must get sick sometimes in the waiting room at vet’s offices because as well as they clean, they’re not cleaning in between every patient, right?
Dr. Tu:
Actually, no they are.
Annie:
In the waiting room?
Dr. Tu:
Not in the waiting room, right, but in the exam rooms they certainly are cleaning between patients and now in midst of this outbreak, um, most vet clinics, um, certainly I know with our vet clinic we are doing kind of a, a, um, you know, we’re making sure that pets who have any sort of off the respiratory side, they are going straight into, um, one particular exam room that is designated for all tests with upper respiratory signs. And all of our staff are properly trained, right? So these patients are being seen by doctors and techs and nurses who are in full on protective wear so that it’s not going on the doctor’s clothing or the technician’s clothing to the next patient.
Um, you know, our clinic, luckily we’re big enough that we do have the space to do this and we do have the space for time, separate out some patients who had degree, um, in room and kind of using different paths and then cleaning down those paths when these patients are coming in and out or even having our clients carry their dogs in there and, uh, carry their dog straight out so they’re not contempt four. So I think in some cases for dogs going to a vet clinic, yes, you always have that potential of course. Um, but there may be more at risk to getting contaminated by something like this if they were saying going to a groomer who doesn’t have the medical training to understand that this is a concern and that this is something that you really need to kind of clean between each patient for.
Annie:
But to be clear, it’s all, it’s airborne. It’s not just them touching the floor. Right?
Dr. Tu:
Right. So it is airborne. Um, it’s more like a, um, a droplet situation. So one a dog’s needs is it can cause it to be airborne. It is not going to stay in the air. Those drops will fall onto surfaces and primarily stay on surfaces. But a dog can sneeze a pretty far distance, right? Um, a dog can project there, um, the, the virus up to 25 feet. So, you know, and in New York city, it’s one of those things where you’re in a situation where you’re probably gonna be exposed to this. Um, and it’s, it’s going to be hard to really have a good way of preventing it other than really to make sure your dog is vaccinated against it.
Annie:
Dogs can be transmitting the virus even if they’re not sneezing or showing other signs, right?
Dr. Tu:
Right, exactly. Um, and it, it, I think it does put, um, somebody like you within, within a business owner in a slightly difficult situation because there isn’t a really good way for you to prevent this other than potentially to, um, really kind of, you know, get, making sure your patient population is vaccinated. Um, starting kind of now to really do a lot of deep cleaning, maybe do smaller groups instead of really big groups together. Um, making sure your personnel are really well trained. I know you’ve been talking to all of your staff too, just to make sure you’re washing your hands constantly. Um, making sure that your personnel, um, maybe even have a few change in clothing available at work and just change between each group so that, you know, oftentimes you don’t see that kind of one particular coughing. I mean, those asymptomatic dogs, there really isn’t much that you can do about that.
But the, it’s let’s say you have a puppy playgroup at 9:00 AM and you have a puppy playgroup at noon and then a puppy playgroup at 3:00 PM and you see a dog who is coughing at 9:00 AM and you have a change of clothing, then you can change out of your clothes and decontaminate the whole place before you’re following to puppy playgroups come in later in the day. So you don’t have to cancel everything and wait for your staff to go home and change. Right. Um, and then also the other thing to consider for your own staff, and I know we’ve talked about this too, is that if your staff, they themselves have dogs, make sure that they vaccinate their own dogs because their own dogs aren’t going to be at a higher risk than other dog population because your staff is coming into contact with a lot more dogs.
I’m telling the same exact thing to all of the people that work in our veterinary hospitals, like get your dog vaccinated and also having that change of clothing before you go home. Um, if you are a dog trainer, make sure that you have a change of clothing that you change out of. Um, you had work clothes and into a clean set of clothing before you come into contact with your dog. If you want to be extra careful, it’s not a bad idea to say, you know, just change into that. Go home and shower before you touch your own dog. Obviously wash your hands as much as you can. Maybe even consider changing out your shoes and leaving your shoes at work. Um, if you have parcels and stuff like that and make sure that they’re not coming anywhere near other patients during the day, the work day, or if you have, say a treat bag that you have to use, um, have a few so that you can switch out again between patients and don’t bring any of that back to your own house, to your own dog. Because again, your own dogs are going to be the most at risk for becoming exposed to something like this.
Annie:
Is there any silver lining here, any good news?
Dr. Tu:
The good news is that we don’t think that this outbreak is going to be as bad as back in Chicago in 2015. Right. Because in Chicago we didn’t even know that this virus existed. We didn’t have any virus, any vaccines. So, um, one of the questions that I had actually proposed to, I had asked the specialists on this, um, this outbreak is how long do you expect this outbreak to? So the 2015 outbreak lasted about, I believe they said about 18 months. Um, before they really started to get a control of that initial outbreak. I mean they’re still constantly having new cases, but it’s not as bad as that first burst. Um, this outbreak, this current outbreak that we had that’s come from San Diego early this year and it has now hit New York, at least we have the vaccine that we know works well and works against this.
Um, and we know what we’re dealing with. So that’s really the silver lining. We have something that we can use to stop and slow down the spread. And the good news also is that, you know, New York city dog owners are great dog owners. They’re not going to kind of sit around and say, yeah, we’ll see what happens. And people are being very proactive of coming in doing that initial shot. And you know, even I asked some great clients who are even changing their 4th of July, the vacation plans and saying, you know what, I can wait to go out there. I’m going to come back for that two week booster. And you can’t booster sooner than two weeks. But if you do that initial shot and then booster right at two weeks, your dog is protected within a month and that is the shortest time frame. So people are really being good about that and being proactive and getting their dog protected and hopefully that is going to really kind of nub this, nip this outbreak in the bud before it really gets really bad.
Annie:
Okay. Great. Anything else that you think we should, we should mention that people are going to want to know?
Dr. Tu:
No, I mean if you have questions I would say just, you know, get in touch with your veterinarian. Um, if you think that your dog might be showing fry then call them sooner than later. And if you are going to your vet for a visit that might be related to some sort of upper respiratory infection, notify the staff before you get there. Right. Just say that I’m coming in, my dog is having coughing signs, my dog is acting a little off. I am worried about the flu just so that you do do your part in kind of slowing the spread. Um, but your bed’s going to be really your best to be forced to. If you have any other questions, so don’t hesitate to reach out to them.
Annie:
What is the cost of the vaccine? Are there, are there options for, for low cost versions?
Dr. Tu:
Um, it depends. It really kind of depends on each clinic. Um, again, it is something where I would recommend that you do do an exam along with the vaccine. You don’t just kind of give the vaccine because there may be signs that the PA your pet has illnesses. And if that’s the case, it’s not recommended to give vaccine to a pet who currently is ill. um, but it really kind of depends on each clinic, um, how much their exam is and how much they’re, they are being charged for the vaccine and all that stuff. So I would just check with your vet. Um, it’s usually not gonna be very expensive.
Annie:
And are you cautioning people from traveling? Is there a risk of spreading the vaccine from New York too?
Dr. Tu:
Places people bring their dogs. Right. And you know, we’re not necessarily caution people against traveling. You know, that’s always something that’s hard to do. If people are going to travel, they’re going to travel. Um, and it is in all of the States. Right. So, um, perhaps if your dog is currently sick then don’t travel. Yes. Um, we do, we do always recommend a pre-travel exam before you go anywhere, even if you’re not going to a country, a different country or somewhere that requires, do you have a pre-travel exam? Certainly in midst of an outbreak for the sake of public health, it’s probably not a bad idea to say, Hey, you know what, I’m driving prostate and let me have my bed, check my dog and make sure that this, my dog isn’t going to be typhoid Mary and bring this to somebody else.
Annie:
Thank you so much Dr. Tu. I think this was really helpful. Yeah, completely. I know it’s scary. It’s sad, but at least you know we’re getting the information out there and um, you know, again, your, your vets are going to be really great resources and hopefully we’ll be able to get this under control quickly and not result in any deaths cause that’s the worst part of it.
Fun dog fact of the day. Dr. Tu mentioned Typhoid Mary, now Typhoid Mary was actually a real person. Her name was Mary Mallon. She was born in Ireland in 1869 moved to New York when she was a teenager and although she claimed she never had typhoid, she was a carrier and she worked in many kitchens as a cook and at least three people in families she worked for, people died of typhoid, uh, many more than that were infected. Eventually she was put into quarantine on a tiny Island in the East River near the Bronx and she lived there for more than two decades until she died in 1938. She spent most of that time in solitary confinement, which is pretty sad. Uh, except she wasn’t totally alone! She did have a dog as a companion. I wasn’t able to find any photos of her with this dog or very much information about the dog.
But if you’re listening to this and you’re a Typhoid Mary expert and you know anything about her companion and solitary confinement, let me know. I’m definitely curious.
And our Woof Shout Out today goes to a dog I mentioned a few weeks ago. Mu, the tiny, adorable, sweet and sensitive Pappy on who has been coming to school for the dogs for over a year. Mu just broke his foot. He got stepped on and uh, he has a tiny little cast on and it’s very, very sad. Uh, I will put a photo in the show notes, but our hearts go out to mu lo. We love you and hope you’re feeling better soon. Thanks so much for listening. You can support School For The Dogs Podcast by telling your friends about it, leaving a review or shopping in our online store. You can learn more about us and sign up to get lots of free training resources when you visit us online at schoolforthedogs.com.
