11 JulEpisode 15 | Let’s talk about dog walking with Shelley Goldberg of DivaDog
In New York City, a good dog walker can be hard to find. Dog owners open up their homes to them, and put their most beloved and vulnerable family members in their care, but a majority of walkers have no training or even interest in their chosen career. DivaDog is a walking company that strives to bring professionalism to the industry. I interview its owner, Shelley Goldberg, about her three decades in the business, her hiring and management practices, and finding meaning and soulfulness in the pet care industry.
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Podcast Episode 15: Let's talk about dog walking with Shelley Goldberg of DivaDog
Transcript:
Annie:
Hi, my name is Annie Grossman and I'm a dog trainer. This podcast is brought to you by School for the Dogs, a Manhattan based facility I own and operate along with some of the city's finest dog trainers. During this podcast, we'll be answering your questions, geeking out on animal behavior, discussing pet trends, and interviewing industry experts. Welcome to School for the Dogs podcast.
**music**
Annie:
So at School for the Dogs, we often get asked to recommend a variety of different dog service providers in New York City. And a lot of clients ask us to recommend dog walkers. Now this can be tricky because dog walking is a field where there's so much turnover, that it can be really hard for us to recommend anywhere because we're never sure that the walkers that we like are still going to be with the place. And as trainers we’re really well aware of all the things that can go wrong with a not good dog walker. You don't even have to have a dog who has a lot of issues to have a dog that can be really adversely affected by even one bad walk with a walker. And that might not be a walker who's necessarily nefarious or anything. It might just be one who's not that experienced. And, it's a job where most people do it as their careers. Most people kind of dip in and out of dog-walking.
So over the years we have created a very small list of walkers that we tend to recommend. And today I'm speaking with the owner of one of the companies that we recommend, the company is called DivaDog. It's owned by Shelley Goldberg, who's based in the East Village. And some of the reasons why we recommend DivaDog, first of all, Shelley is a career dog walker. She doesn't walk dogs herself anymore. She runs the business, but she has been doing walking since 1990. And she's going to talk about that a little bit. Other things that set her apart, she is a lot more expensive than all the other walking companies that we recommend. And I don't know what she pays her walkers, but I'm guessing she pays them enough to make them stick around for a while, which I think again is important because a lot of the times dogs, especially really sensitive dogs, don't react well to having a new walker every three to six months. And it seems like she has some really good retention with her walkers and really devote some time to training her walkers.
Something else that I appreciate about Shelley's business is the simplicity of it. Her walkers are not GPS tracked. She does everything on paper. She prefers to be contacted by phone then via email or in any other kind of way. And in a day and age where things can get super complicated with social media and cell phones and smartphones and everything else, I think it's cool that she has kept the quality of her business up without complicating things. And I think it speaks to the quality of her service that she always has a waitlist of clients and she has done no advertising and isn't on social media. I am excited to have Shelley tell us a little bit about herself.
**music**
Shelley:
I'm the owner of Diva Dog and Cat. And we do specialized services. We work specifically with dogs who have a bite history, behavioral issues of any kind. And we also work with dogs with medical issues. We do regular walking as well, but we have primary focus on dogs with behavioral issues and medical issues. I have anywhere between 15 to 20 people who work for me and we do on average, I'm going to say about 400 walk-services per week.
Annie:
Wow. Okay. And how long has this been going on?
Shelley:
I started walking myself in 1991 before dog-walking was a thing or an industry. And I was a professional, independent dog walker without insurance or anything until about 2003. And that's when I started to transition into having people work for me.
Annie:
So in the nineties, that's a long time then that you were doing that. Were you doing that full time? I know you were also a musician, so it was it…
Shelley:
No, exactly. I was doing music at night and I was dog-walking during the day.
Annie:
How did you get into doing it then?
Shelley:
I actually decided around 1990 to give up alcohol. And I found that I had a ton of energy during the day. I used to go out and have a couple of drinks after work, but when I stopped drinking, I had all this energy and I didn't know, you know, what to do with myself during the day until my gigs at night. And I had a neighbor who approached me and said–
Annie:
Wait, so you say your gigs at night, you were playing piano and singing right? At the Gramercy Park Hotel.
Shelley:
Yes.
Annie:
That's so cool. What kind of music did you do?
Shelley:
Oh, I did things like, “bye bye, Miss American pie,” “bad, bad Leroy Brown.” A lot of Carol King, a lot of James Taylor. I sing in seven languages. And yeah, I do a lot of torch music, so I do folk music, sad music, musicals.
Annie:
That's so cool. Did you love doing that?
Shelley:
I did for about 10 years and then it started to get a little boring. I found that, the really funny thing for me is that people always used to say, “Oh, it's so creative. It must be so great to be a singer,” or–but I find that talking to people who were drinking and smoking and in those days you could smoke in bars. So I was inhaling a lot of secondhand smoke and just working until one o'clock and going to bed really late living in New York City where there's always noise early. It kinda didn't–it was very funny because everybody thought being a musician was the most creative thing that you could be.
But I started having this desire to be in business. And I thought, wouldn't it be so creative if I could create everything around me, and when I first started walking dogs, I just did it because I was in love with the animals. Like I did not grow up with a dog or cat. I just grew up, you know, with neighbors who had them. And I just had never had relationships with animals at all. But once I, for some reason, quit drinking, I became very intrigued. I had a neighbor who approached me and said that she was going on jury duty and didn't have anybody to walk her little dog Sylvester. So I went in, Sylvester was a Chihuahua, very aggressive. I picked up the leash, she growled at me. I dropped the leash and I left. That was my first dog walking experience. So I was pretty bad at it on my first try.Annie:
I wouldn’t say that. I think that sounds like you did the right thing as a trainer, at least.
Shelley:
Yeah. You know what? That's a good point. I ran into
Annie:
I ran into a problem as a dog walker, which I did–I was a dog walker. We were a dog walking at the same time, Shelley, because I started in 1990 when I was 10 years old walking my neighbors’ dogs, which I do not recommend that anybody have their 10 year old neighbor walk their dogs at this point. But I did. I got a dollar per walk, I think. And, how much did you get back then?
Shelley:
Four.
Annie:
You got $4?!
Shelley:
I was up there.
Annie:
Oh my God. Yeah, you were doing better than I was. And…I have childhood dog walking stories galore. But beyond that, when I was older, some 20 years later and was walking dogs before School for the Dogs got started for a little while and I was walking English Bulldogs and I was supposed to walk them for two hours a day and it was summertime. And if I could get to the corner with these dogs, it felt like a triumph. So I would walk them to the corner and then stand and stand there and read the New Yorker, like with these dogs on the leash. And I ended up getting in trouble for it, or I felt like I was doing the right thing as, as someone who understands dogs–but to them, the right thing was, I should have been dragging the dogs around the block. Anyway, so I think you did the right thing with Sylvester. He was telling you don't come near me lady. And you heard him.
Shelley:
And it’s fascinating that you're saying this because, until I branched out and over time had two walkers and three walkers, then I couldn't break through that glass ceiling. And then eventually we were at seven and then 10, and now I've got like 20 people to tap into. But it's so interesting that you're saying this because it's somewhat counter-intuitive, walking dogs. And that's why I've created more of a team. And I won't walk dogs anymore if we don't have trainers on hand. For me, when somebody says to me, Hey, you know, we do have this English bulldog. And I do have that client who says stuff, you know, and we don't mind if you just tug it a little bit and bring it around the corner. And for me, I want to always be able to consult with my trainers and my vets and say, is this a dog that's susceptible to a collapsed trachea? You know, just in general, I don't always have a good sense because I'm not a certified trainer and we never profess to be certified trainers, but we're trainer compliant. And so it's interesting what you're saying about reading the New Yorker on the corner. You know, we now know the story behind bulldog breeds.
Annie:
Yeah. Right. Well, I don't think you need to have like the stamp of a certified trainer to know what a dog might need or know where it's gone beyond your capabilities. And I think a good walker should be tuned into that stuff, but anyway, back on track. So for more than 10 years, then you were just walking on your own.
Shelley:
For more than 10 years I was walking on my own. And I would have things like my hip would go out. My back would go out. My arms would go out. I didn't–pretty much I was getting paid, but I just had a sense that I was kind of floundering and I didn't, you know, it wasn't a business at that point. It was something that I was building toward. It was a learning curve. It was a creating process, but I wasn't at the point where suddenly, you know, I wanted it to be really an organized company with people and a vision and a mission. And that, that came over time.
Annie:
So, now to skip forward a little bit, one thing that I think is interesting about the way you seem to run your business is you're not online. Is that right?
Shelley:
That's correct. Do you want me to talk about that?
Annie:
Yeah, definitely. Well, I think I want to hear about–I'm curious about any business that's as successful as yours, that doesn't have an online presence. And if you've done that perhaps on purpose to keep things the size that you want it to be. But also I know so many dog walkers now that use all kinds of different programs and different apps. There's the GPS tracked dog walkers and the online scheduling and, you know, the book a walker at the last minute services like Wag and whatever, but you've seemed to kind of exist in your own realm. Right?
Shelley:
True. And it's interesting that, um, the person who advises me is very old fashioned and old school. And initially when I started getting busy like this, I was like, let's do this software for accounting and this software for scheduling and we'll GPS our walkers, and a couple of my older walkers–cause I have walkers all the way from like 19 to 69. And my 60, my people in their sixties were like, we don't want to be GPS’ed. There's enough surveillance and big brother going on. So for me, I just listened to my advisor who was old school. And he said, you know, you probably don't need all that stuff. And you can always do both. It's good to have hard copies and everything. So my files are right over there in a basket and I do actually have online files, but I don't use any software, any Yelp, any anything. And it is intended. And it's not necessarily to keep us a certain size, but we are word of mouth referral based only.
And the truth of the matter is I feel like if it's not broke, don't fix it. And it just hasn't, there was a period where I thought that it maybe was going to become necessary. And when I really thought it through and thought of the upkeep and the maintenance and the fact that I don't know that I want all my information out there. We've been pretty low key. People are surprised and happy when I describe our business model. And I don't know that I want copycats out there. And there's enough bad stuff on the internet when you're on Yelp and everything too. And I'm just not thick-skinned like that. So I'd rather, you know.
Annie:
It’s hard, I know what you mean, having a business that is on Yelp where we have reviews and everything. Not so much anymore, but I used to like, curl up into a ball when we'd get a bad review. It felt so damning, it felt so personal because it, when you have a business, a small business that you have started and that you love, it does feel kind of like it's a part of you and it feels very personal and hurtful when someone like–It's like someone coming into your house and like pooping or something. Well, it's okay if someone poops in your house, as long as the bathroom. But it's like, you've invited someone into your home and then they insult you. And anyway, I totally get it. I think, it's a funny word to use, but I think it's kind of brave to do it the way that you're doing it. And, I think it's also interesting that you charge a lot more than average walkers. I'd say most walkers. It seems to me based on my clients and who they use charge between–well, are your walks an hour or half hour?
Shelley:
Well, we do 90 minute walks. We do hour long walks. Then we do 45 minute walks. We will do a 30 minute walk on demand, if we are really, really, you know, walking an English bulldog, for example, or a long haired senior citizen dachshund or something like that. But for the most part, we like to stick to 45 minute visits. I've been told by my walkers that anything less than 45 minutes is a rush job. So yeah, and we're about to raise our prices again.
Annie:
So just to, I was about to say the background of pricing. So I think in New York City, in my experience, walkers tend to charge between $15 and $45 for a half hour to an hour walk. And from what I understand, you guys charge more than that. But it seems like there's still a demand because I guess the people who you're working for are not bargain shoppers.
Shelley:
Well, it's not only that they're not bargain shoppers, but we have a model that is such that– one of the things I've noticed a lot, and maybe more for younger companies that haven't been around as long, is that they don't have the same walkers and they don't have consistency and stability. And I hear a lot of people call me up and they say, you know, I want to use you because–but, or because–I want the same walker every day for the next three years. And if you had asked me maybe five years ago, do you think you'll be able to have walkers for that long? I might not have been able to answer it. I mean, at this point I do have walkers that have been with me 15 to 20 years. I have walkers that have been with me two to five years. And I try to keep two things in mind though, when I hire walkers: I want it to be an awesome experience for the walker as much as I do–So I'm not just thinking business, client, dog. I'm thinking, how can this be a really good environment for my walkers?
Annie:
That’s so interesting, because I feel similarly about our employees where I feel like–I mean, I don't feel like they're our clients. I mean, I feel like we have some clients and employees, but I want my employees to be psyched to show up for work. I want them to feel good about what they're doing. I feel like I want to start with their dream scenario of what their life should be like. And then we can work from there. Like, tell me how you want to set up your days. Tell me what you want to be making, tell me what you want to be doing. And I can't promise you all of that, but like, that seems like a good place to start. And I don't know if that's how most businesses operate, but I feel like because we're doing something that's, like you, we're kind of making it up as we go along. We're not following some franchise handbook. That like, if, if we are going to get to make up the roles and everything we're doing, might as well work with everyone's happiness in mind.
Shelley:
Exactly. When I interview somebody, they go through a pretty rigorous interview background–
Annie:
I want to hear about that. But like, what's the first step of hiring a dog walker because just to back up again, you know, I think most, most people don't think about dog walking as a career. They don't think about the person they're hiring as a career dog walker. I think most people don't aspire to one day be a dog walker, right? And actually, funny story, 10 or 15 years ago, I used to be a journalist and I wrote an article for the New York Times about part-time pets, like people who were kind of renting gerbils or hamsters, or I don't think it was dogs and cats, more like, you know, small animals that you can have in a cage or a tank or whatever. And there was a company on the Upper West Side where you could have one of these pets and take it home for the weekend, but they wouldn't have the full time responsibility. It was a clever idea. Maybe it still exists.
Shelley:
I’ve heard of it. Yep.
Annie:
You have. And, this little boy I interviewed as part of the story who had like a pet, I don't remember, Guinea pig. He was five years old and I remember he said, “I want to be a dog walker when I grow up.” And the mother went bananas afterwards and was calling me nonstop. And she even called my editor, which seemed so extreme saying like, “you can't include that in the article that was off the record,” like this Upper East Side woman who absolutely did not want anyone to know that her son wanted to be a dog walker.
Shelley:
Well, I tell my walkers, you know, I had one of my walkers recently said to me recently, about seven or eight months ago, you know, “I don't aspire to be a dog walker all my life.” And I was like, but you're not a dog walker. You're a canine connoisseur and feline connoisseur. You're, I mean, I have some walkers who actually do call themselves that and–
Annie:
Well, it's true that it's not just about walking, it’s kind of a misnomer.
Shelley:
It is a misnomer.
Annie:
Some dogs don't need a walk, but they need someone to be there with them for some amount of time. It's a rental parent in a way.
Shelley:
Right. And I think because of the fact, the way that our culture has become in New York City, the service that we provide is so personalized and so customized that when you come to me and you're interviewing for a job or you're applying for a job with me, like I say, you're going to be this pet's best friend. You're going to be their nanny, you're going to be their uncle, their aunt. And my walkers when they're–I had a girl this week finish a sleepover for a dog that we had to work rigorously with because he had so much aggression of people coming into the apartment. We were almost at our wit's end, and it worked out. She did it. And I actually got a call from her the night that she went home and she said, you know, I cried tonight when I left.
I mean my walkers care so much. And sometimes people come to me–for a while, I was putting ads in Playbill at the theater.
Annie:
Interesting.
Shelley:
Yeah, and I thought, well that's a good place because you know, early on I needed a lot of staff really fast. We went through a big growth spurt at a certain point and I was pulling my hair out trying to get staff, so we used Playbill, but it was very disheartening because nobody really wanted to be, you know, a massive animal person. They wanted to be on Broadway. They could only commit to maybe three months and you never–
Annie:
In Playbill magazine, like the magazine people get when they go to the theater?
Shelley:
Yes.
Annie:
Well, so aren't some people just people who like going to the theater?
Shelley:
Maybe.
Annie:
But it was a lot of actors.
Shelley:
It was a lot of actors and I did it for a short amount of time just to test the waters because I wasn't sure where I would like it. But I really make it a point to speak to people. And that's why I never think, like when somebody comes to me at 55 years old or 65 years old and says, I want to be a dog walker, the only thing I've ever done is babysit. Or I want to be a dog walker. I used to work at a, you know, investment bank. I don't say no to anybody. I listened to their story. I asked where they're going to be five years from now, where they envision themselves five years from now. Why do they love animals, what's their animal experience, all these things. And that means a lot to me. But I also spend an enormous amount of time investing in that person, developing them, grooming them, sending them to you guys, sending them to other trainers and you know, really, really developing something.
Annie:
It feels like you're entering, I mean it is a relationship, but it feels almost like a romantic relationship, right? When you're hiring someone.
Shelley:
It’s so funny that you said that because I actually have said to, I remember one day, about a year ago, I hired a new girl and I got a little huffy with her at one point because she was late and I hate late. And she said something to me like, “this isn't gonna work. It's okay. I'm just gonna quit.” And I said, let's not get divorced before we even go on our first date. And I often will say to people, you know, our relationship is going to be like dating first. We're going to have the honeymoon, then the honeymoon will be over and you'll see me for who I really am. And I want to tell you about my bad side and my good side.
Because I, like you, I think you have some managers, but I know that you operate your own business and I own and operate my own business. So people deal with me a fair amount.
Annie:
And it's hard to not let it get personal, isn't it?
Shelley:
Well, I have a lot of policies and one of my policies is we have no swearing. And I don't know why that helps it not get personal, but yeah, I just tell people if you get on an airplane and the pilot gets on and starts saying the F word or something, wouldn't you be kind of shocked? And so I try to keep things super professional. I do–It does get very personal when we're working together, but, yeah, I just try to keep it very professional.
Annie:
Where are you finding walkers now?
Shelley:
Well, so we do some online stuff. And we also, I have some people who recruit for me, and I have an HR person who does my interviews.
Annie:
Wow. Is that an HR person who works only with dog walking companies?
Shelley:
No, she used to work with Bank of America, and she just knows how to couch questions, to see how people would respond in a dangerous situation. “What would you do if you dropped a leash? What would you do if you saw an oncoming dog?” You know, how would you get out of, she knows how to couch things to see people in adversity and how they would react. So she’s a lot of training.
Annie:
What percentage then of your time goes into hiring versus managing the walker?
Shelley:
It depends on the season. Sometimes I go through a season where, like right now for the first time in a long time, we actually have really good full staff. Almost like this has been the longest period of time. I haven't had to open up my online, but also, then a well of new clients come in and then I have to go back. So I don't know. It's my least favorite thing is meeting new people and–
Annie:
The hiring and firing.
Shelley:
Yeah. And I'm not a big firer, I usually let people sort of end their own relationship with us. I mean, by the time I hire somebody, unless something really drastic happens, you know, I know who they are. And we take a long time working with people before we put them in the field.
Annie:
Isn't that quite an investment to be investing that kind of time and energy into people?
Shelley:
It is. And it may not be the most ideal thing, but I can't afford to ruin my reputation. And it's one way that I get to know the walker.
Annie:
So what does that investment look like? Is it sending that person out on–to shadow walks? Is it like reading? Is it..
Shelley:
Both, right. I look to see how consistent they are, how consistent their mood is, how do they deal with the angry babysitter or an angry housekeeper or a macho doorman. I look to see, you know, how are they on their worst day? How are they in the midst of adversity?
Annie:
But how do you see those kinds of stuff?
Shelley:
I have a lot of ways to find things out. But one of the things that I do is a buddy system initially where they go out with a senior walker and they spend a lot of time with the senior walker. And I asked for feedback. And I will sometimes send them out with multiple walkers to see and I'll get like three or four different walkers telling me, you know, this is how so-and-so did. And it's really interesting and helpful.
Annie:
What do you think are the unexpected challenges of dog walking all day long?
Shelley:
I think the biggest unexpected challenge of dog-walking is the chaos of New York City. The noise of New York City, the pack walks that you come across in the Upper East side.
Annie:
Which is what a lot of people just think is what dog walking it looks like.
Shelley:
Seriously. Yeah. They do.
Annie:
But you don't walk more than how many dogs at a time?
Shelley:
Typically one, we're a private walk company. If you own two dogs and you want us to, we'll do a buddy walk and that sense
Annie:
To someone who has no opinion or knowledge about like pack walking, what do you–how would you describe what is wrong with that? What's wrong with the picture of the woman or guy walking five dogs in each hand down Park Avenue?
Shelley:
I mean apparently it's working for them, so I'm not sure what's wrong or what's right. I am always–
Annie:
But is it working for the dogs?
Shelley:
What I'm amazed by is they seem to be like synchronized swimmers. They just seem to go with it. It's bizarre to me. And, I feel like it's another person's success and most–none of my clients come to me and want that service. So I don't, I mean, it sounds a little odd that I can't answer the question maybe, but I think if you're a person who wants to have a really inexpensive walk but a professional walk and you don't mind that and they're not getting hurt, I don't know–
Annie:
Here's my, my feeling about it is not the actual walking because like you said, sometimes it just seems like it really works. And, and I like to imagine they're figuring out which dogs can walk well together. And I like to imagine that if it's not safe, they're not going to walk the groups of dogs like that. But what I worry about and what I see is when they're dropping off the dog or picking up a dog, they're then putting eight dogs on a banister.
Shelley:
And I've seen when they sometimes have a friend and the friend watches, I've never witnessed that part of it. But I totally agree. It’s horrifying.
Annie:
I've seen it. I have some clients for us to have like unlimited funds and yet they still have these people walking their dog, and you know, looping it over the banister while they go in to bring another dog in or out. And all these dogs are unsupervised on the street. I find it scary.
I think it's really cool that you have a wide gap in ages, or not gap. I think it's really cool that you employ people of all different ages and from different backgrounds. I've always daydreamed about starting a mom's walking club or not walking club, like a mom's walking service or retired moms walking service. Because there is so much turnover. And it seems like if you can find people who are going to stick around, that's part of the battle of running a dog walking company. Right?
Shelley:
Absolutely.
Annie:
Because there is so much turnover, and so part of what seems like your job is, and it's funny cause we're talking about the employee as a kind of client, is you have to make it sustainable for them because you want them to stick around. I mean, it's amazing to me that you’ve had people working for you for 20 years.
Shelley:
And even the people that have only been working for me for three or four years are, you know, they feel like family to me. They're just, you know, we have a trust, we have a loyalty, we have an understanding, we have respect and, you know, it's a very solid relationship.
Annie:
Tell me about some of your walkers, if you don't mind. And are there any of them, wouldn't mind being talked about you think? Tell me the stories of some of these people who–
Shelley:
I will, actually, well, I probably shouldn't use the name in specific, but I will say that I have one person who works for us who is just amazing. When they came to me initially, they sort of portrayed themselves as not having been in the workplace and, you know, being very anxious to work with animals. Eager, I should say, to work with animals. And over time I think much to that person's own surprise, the updates were–the updates are really important part of what we do. And she had these gorgeous pictures and, just the updates were so amazing that one of my clients told me this morning that she actually made a book. Went through 300 pictures of the doggy updates and made a book, and is going to give it to me and said I could use it for marketing because this walker has such amazing updates. And I think, you know, especially for this one in particular, I just feel that they bring everything in them. Like it's not just a job. It's not just like, “Oh yeah, I'm going to work.” It is, they pour everything into. And I know when I get these pictures and these updates and the way–I mean, I have some really amazing writers too that work for me. And the things that come in their texts are just–looking for my phone. They’re incredible.
Annie:
That’s funny, I remember in the short period, like eight or nine years ago when I was walking, I would write notes and I would get like writer's block for the notes sometimes. And I'd have to, like hit myself on the head and be like, Goddammit, this isn't the great American novel here. I just need to write a note to say the dog peed and pooped. Why am I like agonizing about?
Shelley:
No, it's funny.
Annie:
But I think if you're someone who pours yourself into stuff, sometimes you just can't turn it off. Right?
Shelley:
Absolutely. Absolutely. And do also really like to tell my walkers that each one of them has a unique and special voice, and that even though some of my walkers are super like, you know, they write like a professional writer, and other of my walkers are just, you can feel the love in the text and it may not be a fancy, perfectly written text, but you just, you know. So I have really amazing people that work with us and I get a lot of feedback about them. I have one girl in particular who some people are like, either send me Roxanne or send me no one.
Annie:
So if someone is looking to hire a walker and they're not in the East Village, well where do you operate? Only in the East Village?
Shelley:
No, we work all over Manhattan.
Annie:
And so you have walkers who commute all over Manhattan or do they usually work in specific areas?
Shelley:
We also work in Brooklyn a little bit. We have a couple of clients that left Manhattan, went to Brooklyn and took us with them.
Annie:
So if somebody is hiring a walker, and let's say they’re outside, they're not in New York City. Cause if they're in New York City, obviously they should call you. But if they're not in New York City, what do you suggest they ask the walker or, or whoever's running the company? Are there one or two questions that you think are, are good?
Shelley:
Well, I think it's really important to know what the vetting process is and what the developing and grooming and ongoing, like I always tell my new clients that we have ongoing education. That our walkers are always, you know, like the time that we came to you guys for that big Sue Sternberg event, and you know that we have options and go up to, we do a lot of work with other places and get to shadow trainers and stuff like that. So we're always learning new stuff. I think the vetting process is very, very important and to hear and know and just see, like if you're working with a new company, it's important to know how long have they been around. Get references. I mean I encourage people even with me, because I'm not online, I say if you have any hesitation at all, let me give you two or three phone numbers or emails of people that have worked with me for the last 10 years. Why don't you hear. You know, just go with your gut.
And if you don't feel that there's enough of a vetting process, don't do it. Also, it's really important to know how much training are they getting. And what do they do like in a dangerous situation? Are they going to dog parks? Have they given you documents to sign and waivers? Do they have insurance? You know, these are important things.
Annie:
Yeah, bonding and insurance.
Shelley:
Bonding and insurance. Yes.
Annie:
Are certainly important. And you don't need to be a big company to have that.
Shelley:
No.
Annie:
I'm just curious to see your scheduling process cause like we talked about, I know that you do it all on paper. I'm very tactile too. I like things on paper but it's become harder and harder.
Shelley:
Well I will say this is–
Annie:
So what I'm looking at here is like a half sheet of poster board, right? And it's the whole 11 by 17 here or something like that. There's pen, this was clear– It's pen and ink. It was made with a ruler. With pink [inaudible] pen, blue ballpoint pen, black ballpoint pen. We have some highlighter action happening here. It says on the top, everyone's name along the top. Oh my goodness. Is this white out? Are you using white out Shelley?
Shelley:
Yes!
Annie:
Is it, are there different meanings to the colors here? The red.
Shelley:
No, not necessarily. And this is part of the scheduling. What you don't see is what's the same every week. These are the changes and then tallies and stuff like this.
Annie:
And then you have things in an actual ledger here. Tell me about your fax machine here. Is it still in use?
Shelley:
You know, I'm going to tell you that I kinda have some issues with my back. So if I can go like this and at the same time,
Annie:
Oh, so it's really about the phone.
Shelley:
It's about the phone, but the fax machine is still in use. And then you know, we have a spare Mac here and the non-working printer there.
Annie:
It's important to have a non-working printer.
Shelley:
It's not even that, it's not working. The other one after 17 years broke. Yeah. So I just haven’t hooked this one up yet.
Annie:
If people want to find you, do they send a carrier pigeon to your…
Shelley:
They do, they send a carrier pigeon. Or a blimp outside the East Village would be fine. 707 DIVA DOG is our phone number. And we, I did that purposely, not just for, first of all, when walkers are in the street walking and somebody says, are you a dog walker? And by the time they get their cards it's hard to– so I got a vanity number that people could remember.
Annie:
Do your walkers have a uniform or they don't.
Shelley:
They don't. At one point we were going to until there was a little flurry of walkers getting in trouble that all had certain t-shirts and I thought just in case, I'm not going to…
Annie:
Oh. When walkers of other companies–
Shelley:
Correct, not ours. But yeah. And I had a lady send me a picture and she's like, are these walkers yours? Cause they were doing some bad stuff and I'm like, no, thank God, but it's going to tell me why not to get DivaDog t-shirts.
Annie:
And email? Do you prefer for people to call you rather than email?
Shelley:
Yeah, or text.
Annie:
Okay. So that, that number works with text messages.
Shelley:
Yeah, because usually typically the very first time I'm going to need to do an intake and see if, if we're a good fit.
Annie:
Do you meet every client, then?
Shelley:
I never meet clients.
[laughing]
I'm lucky I met you.
Annie:
So you don't meet the clients then?
Shelley:
Rarely, a lot of times people will say to me like three, four years into the relationship, when am I going to finally meet you?
Annie:
So do people do most scheduling then over the phone?
Shelley:
Yep. Or text or email. The phone is becoming very extinct and obsolete, but I'm very happy, once we establish a relationship, I'm happy to do text or email.
Annie:
I'm just curious, do you have any other ground rules that you set for your walkers? Are they allowed to listen to headphones for example?
Shelley:
They're not, they're not. And I, mostly because it's very dangerous and I want them to just have 100% focus.
Annie:
Is there anything else you think people would be interested to know about you and what you're doing?
Shelley:
Well, I think I just want to say that for me more than anything, of all the things I've ever done in life, I'm having so much fun. I love my business. And I want my dog to have fun. I want my clients to have fun, my cats to have fun. And I just, I feel like life is really hard these days and there's a lot of sadness and difficult things going on and I, I really, you know, to be lucky enough to do this for a living, I want everybody to be having a really good time.
**music**
Annie:
Fun dog fact of the day: Did you know that the model Kendall Jenner used to be a dog walker? And our Woof Shout Out of the Day goes to my upstairs neighbor, the woman who has been my upstairs neighbor my entire life. Her name is Nina. She's a big animal lover. She volunteers with a group in New York City called Rational Animal. And as a kid I walked her dogs Jackson and then Sadie, and she now has a wonderful corgi mix named Daisy.
Just a reminder that if you have a question you'd like to answer on this podcast, please email me at podcast@schooltothedogs.com or call and leave a voicemail at (917) 414-2625.
Special thanks to Danielle Anderson, AKA Danielle ate the sandwich, for her awesome rendition of Rockin’ Robin.
Thank you so much for listening. We’ll be back next week with another show. If you liked this episode, please remember to subscribe, rate, and give us a 5-star review on iTunes. And of course, tell your friends. If you have suggestions for future topics or questions about training, please make sure to join our Facebook group. Facebook.com/groups/schoolforthedogs. See you next week.
Links:
Diva Dog: Call 707-DIVA-DOG
