22 OctEpisode 30 | We need to talk about Nelson: Life With A Muzzled Dog
After years of researching breeds, Joanie Comenzo of Manhattan decided to get a Welsh Terrier. When she went to pick up her new dog, Nelson, the breeder pushed him into her arms and said "Your puppy is an alpha." Joanie loved him from the moment she saw him, and that love never waned, even after he bit her multiple times, and sent her mother and boyfriend to the hospital. Over the last eight years, Joanie has sought training and medical advice from a wide array of professionals. Today, Nelson wears a muzzle every moment of the day that he isn't in his crate. He and Joanie live a happy, if unusual, life together.
This is their love story.
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Transcript:
Joanie speaking to Nelson:
Good boy Nelson, Oh, what a good boy.
**music**
Annie:
I'm here with a client of ours, Joanie Comenzo and her dog Nelson, who is, a Welsh terrier. Is that right?
Joanie:
Yes
Annie:
I wanted to speak to Joanie about being Nelson's person because I think as a dog human pair, they've encountered some,pretty formidable obstacles and have come out on the other side, still loving each other.
But let's start from the beginning. So you got Nelson when he was a puppy?
Joanie:
Yeah, 14 weeks.
Annie:
Okay. So what made you decide to get this breed in particular and where did you get him?
Joanie:
Well, I had a Yorkie that I had as a teenager and then I went off to college, so it kind of became my mother's dog. And I knew I wanted something a little bigger, but I liked, you know, Yorkie was a good experience, you know, as a terrier. I knew I wanted a terrier. Everyone told me that the Jack Russell's too insane, don't get a Jack Russell. So I was, I listened, funny story that I ended up with Nelson, but, and I'd seen a few Welsh Terriers around. I was thought they looked interesting and then I just did some research and they just seemed like the perfect dog for me, you know, they said good with kids, I thought I was going to have children. You know good with kids. Good for city or, you know, country living. They adapt well to an apartment or you know, like they just,
Annie:
I always feel like those breed books make such grand generalizations, right? And yet so many people buy their dogs based on what it says.
Joanie:
Yeah. And just so much, you know, everything I read about them, I was like, I think this is going to be the dog for me. And then I researched rescues, it was impossible to get and you know, Welshies are just so hard to come by. There was no rescue with the dog for me and I was like, you know, I waited and I waited and I researched breeders and I found, you know, the top Welsh terrier breeder and you know, in the country and I was on a waitlist there for a really long time and they went through this huge interview process. You know, they were interviewing me to make sure that I was proper for their dogs, you know,
Annie:
Which is something you want from a breeder. You want them to be doing their due diligence too.
Joanie:
And I said, you know, I want a boy and I'll wait. You know, he could be a little older. That's okay. I thought maybe he'd be a little more potty trained that way. You know, cause 14 weeks is a little old for a puppy. I'm usually they’re like eight weeks, I think.
Annie:
10, or 12 weeks.
Joanie:
Um, so one day I got the call and they said,” we have your boy.”
Annie:
And do you know anything about the health or temperament of his parents?
Joanie:
His father was multiple best of breed at Westminster.
Annie:
Wow.
Joanie:
And his grandfather also, so they saw something good in them and his mother was also a show dog.
Annie:
So you picked him up in Philadelphia?
Joanie:
Um, yeah. And you know, it was a two hour meeting. They went…before we saw the dogs, they had us in a couple other families that were there. They gave us this huge binder of information about the dogs and just, you know, tons of stuff. And you know, I recorded the whole thing like a new parent. And I had a boyfriend at the time that I lived with, so he was there with me and, you know, after this binder and questions and the introduction to the Welsh Terrier and everything, they finally took us out to the parking lot and they had the dogs like in a little pen and there were two puppies, I think two weeks earlier than him in one pen and he was separated into a separate pen and I was like, “huh, okay. I guess you know, he's older. Okay.” So he was in a separate pen and we got to meet our dogs.
And I remember as they handed him to me, well one lady handed him to me and said, “um, your dog's an alpha.” And I said, “okay, you know, I don't know what you're trying to tell me but okay.” And so we didn't, I didn't think anything of it. And I put him in his travel bag and we got in the car and we drove all the way back to New York. This is like two o'clock in the morning at this point that we got home.
Annie:
And this was eight years ago, is that right?
Joanie:
Um, yeah, he's eight. So everything seemed fine and we took him home and I slapped a doggy diaper on him and let him have free reign of the house just to see his house and then in his puppy crate, you know. And that was the end of the first night, cause it was like two in the morning when we got back. And the next morning we started potty training and I think I put the leash him for the first time in his life. Everything seemed normal. Potty training was, like, there was no training, he just got it.
Annie:
Did he seem like lovey and cuddly and happy to be held and…
Joanie:
He seemed like a normal dog, teething. He was really teething.
Annie:
A little mouthy.
Joanie:
Well mouthy, yeah, and I remember I had friends come to meet him the first week and they were like, this dog doesn't stop, like he was like all over their shoelaces and the cuffs of their pants. And I was like, “Oh, he's teething” but really teething, you know. And then my mom met him and then she was like, “there's something wrong with this dog. He's not stopping,” you know, like he just… I was like, he's teething. You know, he's a puppy.
Annie:
But it seemed a little bit…
Joanie:
To everyone else to like, you know, he's not stopping. He wasn't hurting anyone, but like it wasn't, it was those little razor teeth.
Annie:
Had some intensity that seemed apparent to others.
Joanie:
It's a little bit of intensity. And then even the first time I brought him to my mom's, he was like leaping off furniture and flying off the stairs and she's like, there's something wrong with this dog. Like, but she was saying it like jokingly, but you know, he didn't stop.
Annie:
Okay.
Joanie:
So those were the first clues if you want to call it right, you know, he's a handful. Right?
Annie:
Plus the woman’s handing him to you and saying, he’s an alpha.
Joanie:
Yeah, what do you make of that to say that?
Annie:
I mean, I don't tend to adhere to the whole sort of dominance way of thinking about dogs. I think dominance can be very fluid. A dog might be, you know, in charge in one situation and not in another situation. But, one thing like in our puppy play times we often talk about is how it's important for puppies to take turns and that they generally naturally do. Sometimes you'll see a dog that seems like he has a preference for playing on the bottom or the top, but, if the puppy can't be redirected or pulled off from the top very easily, it's sort of a bit of a concern. But I mean, I would say in my, you know, the eight or whatever years I've been doing this, I think I've only ever seen one, maybe two puppies that I've really been worried about where I've really felt like this dog is over the top. And the rest of them tend to seem like, you know, they they can learn. Um, but every now and then there's one where it seems like there's some sort of baked in, let's call it intensity, that is worrisome.
So when was, when was your first moment of real concern?
Joanie:
Well, I took him to Biscuits and Bath when I, you know, pretty soon after…
Annie:
And you live in Manhattan, right?
Joanie:
Yeah. And he started puppy kindergarten and Erica Wittenberg, man, she was, she was incredible with him and she didn't seem to have any concerns immediately. You know, he'd puppy kindergarten, he was great. We did obedience, advanced obedience, agility. You know, he did all we did whatever class they had for him and, you know, he did really well. And then as he got a little older, he was getting distracted and just wanted to play. He wasn't so interested in, you know, learning. You know, at that point he was like, I get it. I know you want me to do this for treats, but I'd rather just wander around the room.
And you saw that at, at School for the Dogs -he just wanted to play. And so I would try to take him to the playgroups and he would just go after dogs. Like it just, he couldn't last more than five minutes and she would have to pull- cause I was afraid of him. I was getting like, “Whoa, this is intense.” And she would have to stick her hand in and pull him off. And I was like, I think we should just leave, you know, like, I don't think that Nelson's going to be able to handle this. And so she was like, alright, you know, we'll try to work with it. And, you know, we were always welcome to go back to the playgroup, but it never went well. So she started working with us one-on-one, you know, but little things would come up., like, I remember at one point if he heard me open a yogurt, he would come charging from the other room. Just vicious, like crazy. It was his yogurt, like, you know, like little things like I couldn't do things in my own home that should be normal and she would try to give me tips for it, but then he'd always find a new thing. Like, you know, like it would have to keep being adjusted.
Annie:
Like changing, changing seats in the Titanic.
Joanie:
Yeah. So like, you know, like then there was, like, issues where he didn't want to be in the crate, like, and it's not that he didn't want to be in there, he didn't want my hands anywhere near the door or the latch. So it became, you know, how do I get him in and out of the crate if I can't touch the crate?
Annie:
Well, what would he do to communicate, Hey, I don't want your hands by the crate door.
Joanie:
He would try to kill me through the crate, you know, like lunge and growl and don't touch the lock on my crate.
Annie:
When he was in it and you were letting them out?
Joanie:
Yeah. Or as I put him in, when I went to close it, he didn't want me fumbling with the lock. Even now it's like a little bit of an issue and it was just little things that started to just add up. It was like a lot, it wasn't just one issue-you get a trainer, they help you through it and then you move on. Like it was always something, something, something like he was always stressed about something. He couldn't relax. And then, you know, there was the period when, like, you would do the little lip curl and at first we thought it was cute, we didn't, you know. But at some point there was no more warning, he would just go into attack. Like there was no more lip curl. There was no more growl. There was no, there was no warning.
Annie:
And what did attack look like? How old are we talking at this point?
Joanie:
Well, the first attack started around seven, eight months. He wasn't neutered yet, so we thought we were going to fix that by neutering him and it really just got worse from there.
Annie:
So what was, tell me about the first, what you're calling attack.
Joanie:
Um, my boyfriend at the time was sitting on the couch, I think playing a video game and Nelson was sitting in his lap and I think I walked into the room.And Nelson instead of attacking me, spun around and bit him in the face, like on the nose.
Annie:
Oh wow.
Joanie:
And split his nostril. Wow. So it wasn't a big cut, but the amount of blood that came out of it made it scary ‘cause you know, the nose, I guess a lot of blood comes out of the face, you know. So we were both kind of horrified and he went to the ER to see if he needed a stitch.
Annie:
So I would say, you know, like displacement aggression over some perceived threat. I mean obviously you entering the room wasn't an actual threat,
Joanie:
No.
Annie:
But interesting that he went after your boyfriend rather than going after you. Cause like whatever it was closest.
Joanie:
And this is something he still does, like he'll, you know, if he sees a dog he doesn't like on the leash, he'll spin around and run up my leg. I know he's not going to bite me at this point, but he gives me the warning, like he runs up my leg, like “arh argh”
Annie:
Interesting. Yeah. Uh, so that must've been terrifying.
Joanie:
Yeah.
Annie:
You had to end up at the ER because you entered the room while you're…
Joanie:
Well, I had to stay home and Nelson. Um, and I was afraid, you know, and this is when he still got to roam the apartment free. So, then we started…
Annie:
Did you feel guilty? Did you feel like somehow this was your fault? I'm asking because I think that is a common reaction.
Joanie:
Well, only because he didn't initially want the dog and I did. Like he wasn't, his dog had just died, so he wasn't ready, but I wanted the dog.
Annie:
So what was, what was your next “uh oh: moment, let's call it?
Joanie:
Well then things like that kept continuing, like, the lunging out of nowhere. Like you walk into the room, he'd leap off the couch and come after you. Um, he didn't always make contact or sometimes it was just a little mouthy, but no biting. But the times he would bite you, he wouldn't let go. Like it was like, you know, he was trying to really do some damage- Nelson.
Annie:
So what was your, as far as dealing with these behaviors, these problems was your first reaction to call the breeder? Did you find a trainer? This was before we met, but tell me what you did.
Joanie:
Well, Erica was still trying to work with us.
Annie:
And what kind of advice was she giving you?
Joanie:
You know, she would at that point, um, she was still working on firm “no,”like being really firm. Um, but I mean that the attacks were becoming, so, I don't wanna say frequent, but kind of, we looked into like, well what are the other training… like what else is going on around here that we could find someone. And someone recommended another trainer that they'd seen in the neighborhood and a few people had used and really liked the results they got. And so I met him and he was friendly. He seemed knowledgeable. He seemed determined.
Annie:
And what was his technique?
Joanie:
He favored Cesar Milan's techniques and we were at the point that we were so desperate ‘cause people were telling me I had to get rid of Nelson, that I was like, well, let me try. You know, we tried positive approach, with Erica, who I love to this day, I think she's amazing. Um, but something wasn't clicking for Nelson. So I said, all right, let's try some other approach. And my boyfriend at the time, like, he believed in the Cesar Milan method. That's… we're very different people, so we had very different, which I think kind of maybe added to the confusion for Nelson that we were so opposite in our training methods.
So we tried this guy, this new guy, and we had to sign this release and this paper and Nelson was going to live with him for one week and we couldn't see Nelson at all during that week and it was going to be intense, intense training.
And he had his own dog and I didn't know, but he had another dog there too that he was training at the same time, which I didn't know that. And that was like a huge, I don't know what breed it was, but it was a huge, huge dog and his dog wasn't pretty medium to large dog knowing now I wouldn't have put Nelson in a situation with large dogs like that ‘cause I know he's afraid. After, he had said after one week if things aren't clicking, I'll give you the second week for free and he'll stay with me in an additional week. And I got the call after one week that he needs the second week.
Annie:
Okay.
Joanie:
And that should've been a clue there that he couldn't do what he promised to deliver.
Annie:
Now did he give you any indication of what he was going to be doing during this magic period of time?
Joanie:
He said he was going to fix it.
Annie:
Okay.
Joanie:
I mean that's what I remember. I know he recorded everything and he has hours and hours of footage. I've only seen clips of what…
—
Speaking to Nelson
good boy Nelson, good boy.
—
Clips of what he showed me and an edited down before and after video, which wasn't …
Annie:
too impressive?
Joanie:
Oh, it's overly impressive. It's like ready, edited for television. Like he was this and I turned him into this.
Annie:
I see. I see.
Joanie:
And he did. When he came home, he did turn him into that for about a week and a half and then he reverted and then got even worse.
Annie:
Well that's a problem I often point out with, you know what's called board and trains where you send a dog away, is first of all, you don't know what's happening unless you feel very confident that…
Joanie:
I know now what was happening.
Annie:
What do you think, what was happening?
Joanie:
He was choking him out and wanted us to do that. And I…
Annie:
Did he show you the techniques he was using?
Joanie:
It was um, what is it called? It's not a choke collar, a slip lead like the ones that Cesar Milan uses and you tighten it. This is the extreme. This is after he isn't getting the initial “tsk, tsk” warnings with the poke, that noise,that Cesar makes and then it progresses. Then you like tighten the leash a little bit to let him know or a double tug, to eventually you kind of hanging them by the neck.
Annie:
Great. Was our shock collars involved as well?
Joanie:
Not in front of me. I don't know.
Annie:
So how did you feel about that?
Joanie:
When I saw that, I was horrified, but I didn't know. I said, well I guess this is what has to be done. I don't know. I don't know.
Annie:
This is how you train a dog.
Joanie:
Yeah, I didn't know. And I said, well that's what you know Cesar’s, if he says he studied Cesar and at this point he hadn't worked with Cesar, but eventually he did go train with him. So I guess maybe he was self-taught in the beginning, this particular trainer.
Annie:
I mean, I'd say generally speaking, my approach is that there's nothing I think I can do with a dog that a client can't do with a dog. I want to be able to convey exactly what I'm doing and I also want the client to feel comfortable with it and to understand why it's working. So …
Joanie:
It worked for my boyfriend. He was able to do those techniques pretty well.
Joanie:
But what's the fallout? What’s the fallout of a dog
Joanie:
I couldn’t do it. The dog was more coming after me.
Annie:
Well, and also then I'm sure it contributed to you feeling like you were a part of the problem in that like, you know, this could work for him but not for you and well, and also it's so much that Cesar Milan stuff is like, you need to, you need to have your stuff together. You know..
Joanie:
He trains the owners.
Annie:
A calm, focused person, clear, collected, dadada, and then your dog will get it. Where I think, you know, I've seen four-year-olds trained dogs and people who have really messed up lives be good dog trainers. So I don't, I don't think you actually have to have all your, all your shit together. But anyway, um, so you worked with this guy, you sent Nelson away.
Joanie:
He came back like a zombie.
Annie:
Wow.
Joanie:
The look in his eyes, there was no look in his eyes and he was basically a zombie.
And I was like, well, where's my dog? You know, he had no personality when he came back. And I did witness some of the training in front of me and he basically, yeah, he hung them up and then he had him pinned down on the ground and things that I knew I was never going to do. I couldn't do those things, you know.
And then I had one vet who told me, this is the same vet, they wanted to take out 14 of his teeth and call it dental disarming.
Annie:
Wow.
Joanie:
So we never went back to that vet, but he also told me, you know, I was wearing boots. He goes, take that strong boot and kick him across the room. And he would tell me to hit him with the newspaper, which I did once, I rolled up the thing and was hitting him in the nose and hitting him and Nelson let out the sound like, “ahhooh” like a cry, like I've never heard. He was looking me in the face and crying and then I started crying and Oh, I'm gonna cry now. Never did that again.
But I was like, the vet said the vet said to do that, you know, I didn't know.
Annie:
Oh, Joanie, you're breaking my heart.
Joanie:
You know, whatever these experts were telling me, I tried every single thing, you know. And then, um,
Annie:
I think there are, you know, a lot of people out there who do things to dogs because we're told to do things to dogs and it doesn't necessarily make sense in the larger picture, but because someone's an expert.
Joanie:
I mean this is the vet telling me if he attacks you hit him with the paper. It's just paper. It's not even like, it's like a bat, you know? But still, I think he was just like, mama stop, you know?
Annie:
Yeah. Yeah.
Joanie:
And I only got him a couple times, but it was enough for him to cry.
Annie:
Yeah. Yeah. At this point, had he bitten you yet?
Joanie:
Oh, plenty of times. Yeah.
Annie:
Breaking skin?
Joanie:
He got me so good once at the blood, he got me in like the vein in my wrist. The blood was squirting and hitting the ceiling, like pulsing and hitting the ceiling. And my thoughts were like, you know, you watch movies or you, you, you hear people kill themselves. They cut their wrists. So I'm thinking, “Oh my God, I have minutes to live.” I didn't know. I, you know, my head, I was like so scared. Like I see this blood hitting the ceiling squirting. I said,” this is how I'm going to die. Like he got, he got me in the wrist. This is how people die” But you know, the blood stopped after a few minutes.
Annie:
What triggered that incident?
Joanie:
I went to pet him. Oh, I went to pet him, so, and he chased me into the bathroom and I fell into the bathtub. I remember I was like, Oh my God, this. And then I looked at my wrist and the blood was like, like out of a movie, And then he shook it off and he was fine. You know, like when he does these attacks, he shakes it off and he's fine. Like he'll kiss you the next minute. It's like he blacks out.
Annie:
Did you ever call them the breeder?
Joanie:
And I did. Um, and they said they'd never heard of anything like this before happening with their dogs
Annie:
And they'd never seen any indication of anything like this before they gave him to..
Joanie:
Nope, never.
Annie:
It’s suspicious to me that they never told you that he was an alpha and then, yeah.
Joanie:
And then he was separated from those other dogs, you know, his pen was separate from those other puppies when I got him. They did say, I don't know if it was his dad or his grandfather, but one of them bit the judge in the ring in the show and was disqualified for life or something. That's a rumor I heard. I don't know.
Annie:
Which might have been warranted.
Joanie:
Yeah. But, um,
Annie:
Any, you know, any dog can bite.
Joanie:
Anything with teeth can bite
Annie:
Anything with teeth can bite. People say, “Oh, my dog would never harm anyone. Never, never do anything. Impossible. Impossible.” And I think, uh, absolutely not true. You could have the world's sweetest, kindest dog and if provoked,
Joanie:
I'm afraid. I mean, I love dogs and I pet almost every dog I see now, but I am afraid of all dogs now because of my own.
Annie:
Wow. So after the trainer who tried to hang him and after the vet who suggested hitting him with a newspaper, what was your next step?
Joanie:
I found another vet all the way uptown. She called him a lemon and she said,you got a lemon. And then she said, you know, he's going to ruin my life. I mean…
Annie:
How old was he at this point?
Joanie:
Two.
Annie:
Wow, this was all in the first two years.
Joanie:
She's like, you're going to let this dog ruin your relationship, you know, like get rid of him basically. And the vet had said basically like, don't you value yourself that you're keeping this dog when he's ruining your, you know, your existence. And I thought about it, I was like, well, he's the vet saying this, is he right? Like, do I not value, but I'm thinking I value the dog. Like, and you loved him at that point. This s my child, you know, this, this is what I got, you know, I'm 44. I think this is what I got. You know.
Annie:
What did you love about him? I mean, clearly he's lovable, but to someone who doesn't know this guy.
Joanie:
This is my dog, this is my child. I think it'd be different if I had actual human children. Then of course the safety, their safety would come first. It would be a totally different situation. But if I took on the responsibility of getting this dog, it's my responsibility to take care of him.
Annie:
Did you feel like it did ruin your relationship?
Joanie:
I think that ruined itself, but, um, Definitely. It definitely was very, very stressful with the dog because we never knew, like, if he was gonna attack and then he would always have to jump in and save me if the dog was attacking me and like I couldn't do much if he was attacking him, you know, I wasn't going to.
Annie:
And what was, what was your friends and family reaction to him?
Joanie:
Um, well they knew that when they came over certain things, like, had to take place like Nelson…Then we started having Nelson on a leash all the time. He didn't wear the muzzle yet. But always on leash…
Annie:
Always on leash in the house?
Joanie:
Yeah. They knew, you know, certain things, like you can't just walk in and think he's going to be a regular dog and try to wrestle him or do whatever people do with dogs, you know.
Annie:
Did he bite other people besides you and your boyfriend?
Joanie:
He bites the people closest them because they have access to them. He bit my mom on Christmas one year because my uncle walked in front of the appetizers between his eyeline and the appetizers. So or no, my mom walked between,somewhere between the two things that were going on, so he got her in the stomach. Well he breaks skin break skin and you know, he's gotten my hands mangled before, like mangled.
Annie:
And did your mom say, this is crazy, why are you doing this Joanie?
Joanie:
She keeps saying there's something wrong with this dog. Um, I think she knows at this point that like, I think of him as my child.
Annie:
Yeah. So what was the advice after the vet who told you you got a lemon and you don't find value life.
Joanie:
I got another vet. Eventually I ended up at Heart of Chelsea, which I'm really happy with because I was looking for a vet that did also Eastern medicine because someone recommended, you know, look, you know, try holistic, you know, try this. Everybody wants to help. So they're like, try this, try that, try whatever. But before I found that vet I joined some Facebook groups that Welsh Terriers and I found this lady in Canada and her dog was doing the exact same thing as Nelson. Like it sounded like Nelson. So I contacted her and she said it's the thyroid. And she told me to get his blood work done by Dr. Dodds in California.
So when I found Heart of Chelsea, he was willing to take the blood and send it there. And I didn't think any vet was really gonna listen to me. Like they never said he had a thyroid problem before. You know, no vet had ever said that. But Dr Dodds is like the leading thyroid specialist for dogs. Um, and she breaks it down by breed,sex, age and weight. Like there's like a crazy chart that she uses. And she said he definitely had the thyroid problem exactly like that other Welsh terrier in Canada. Um, so she put them on a thyroid supplement.
Annie:
And did that help?
Joanie:
Hasn't gotten worse. It's helped. I mean, I think a bunch of things have helped just because I'm used to him now and we're used to each other.
Annie:
And eventually you found Dr Christensen, right?
Joanie:
At some point we went to Dr Christensen and she put them on Prozac.
Annie:
So Dr Christensen, for listeners who aren't aware, Dr E’lise Christensen is a veterinary behaviorist and there's only something like 60 veterinary behaviors in the country. They're basically like vets with a specialty in behavior in the same way, like a psychopharmacologist is a psychiatrist with a specialty in medication. And I'm really, in a way, I think it's like one of the most awesome, areas of veterinary medicine because you're dealing a lot of the time with the way a dog feels and thinks in it, but with an animal you can't talk to. Also, you know, a lot of the time behavioral issues, and I'm not saying this is the case with Nelson. I doubt it is, but have to do with pain, you know, a lot of the time and animals in serious pain. And, um, and, uh, it affects their behavior. But because we can't talk to them about, you know, where does it hurt?
Joanie:
Well, we recently discovered he had an ongoing ear infection, and I was sent to one of the major hospitals in Manhattan and they wanted to…their recommendation basically was to take out his entire ear canal. So I got a second opinion at the other leading hospital and they put them on a round of crazy antibiotics for like a month and a half. And when we went back to the checkup, it all cleared up.
Annie:
Wow. So if you listened to a certain vet, you just have a toothless, earless..
Joanie:
…deaf dog. Yeah.
Annie:
You ended up going to Dr. Christensen.
Joanie:
Yeah. I think we never really finished our sessions. I think I might have credit there still. Um, but she put them on Prozac…
Annie:
Was that the first time anyone suggested putting him on medication?
Joanie:
I think he was on, I hope I'm getting it right. I think it was Elavil is another one. I think he was on something else first for anxiety and nothing was clicking. So they, I don't know if she's the first one to suggest Prozac,. I think she's the one who suggested Prozac.
Annie:
And did it make any difference.
Joanie:
It hasn't gotten worse. I don't know what is ..
Annie:
Is he still on the Prozac?
Joanie:
Yeah, because it hasn't gotten worse. So why change it?
Annie:
How many milligrams does he take?
Joanie:
Annie:
Is that a lot?
Joanie:
I've heard from people who take it, that that's an extreme a lot.
Annie:
Were you resistant to putting him on medication?
Joanie:
I wanted to try everything.
Annie:
Right. So yeah, at this point, well, in the chronology, you got to the point where he was on leash all the time at home.
Joanie:
Yeah. All the time. So if I went to the bathroom, he went to the bathroom. If I went to the kitchen, he went to the kitchen.
Annie:
And uh, at some point I know you started putting a muzzle on him. Was that right away? Like he has to wear a muzzle all the time.
Joanie:
That is only been about a year. Maybe not even two years. I think that he's been wearing a muzzle. Um, at the time my boyfriend was really against it. Cause he said, Nelson, won't be able to defend himself if he gets in a fight and he is an instigator, so he was afraid that he wouldn't be able to defend himself.
Annie:
Right. But a dog with a muzzle is much less likely to start a fight is my opinion.
Joanie:
Ehhh, tell that to Nelson.
Annie:
Now with… did you right away decide he needs to wear this muzzle all the time? Does he wear the… he does wear the muzzle al the time.
Joanie:
He has to wear it. Not in his crate. He still sleeps in a crate. He loves his crate. He slept in our bed for a little while as a puppy, but then if I got up to go to the bathroom, I couldn't get back in the bed. So that ended, it was just always crate. But he loves it. Once he's in that crate, he loves it. He loves to go into the crate, now. Now it's not a problem.
Annie:
Is he in the crate most of the time when you're home?
Joanie:
Yeah. He's shakes. We tried to do couch time about a year and a half ago. And it went well the first time, then the second time I just looked at him wrong and he got nervous and came after me. So he prefers to be in his crate and he likes the cover down. He doesn't want me looking at him.
Our new thing that we've been working on, his mama sits next to the crate. And we do that a little bit each night. And sometimes he plays through the crate. Like I have a tug toy that we do sometimes. And sometimes he said, please get away from me. You know?
Annie:
What was the process of having him wear a muzzle? Like, did you have to do some training towards that?
Joanie:
No, He just put her right on.
Annie:
Really?
Joanie:
He's never had a problem. He wore it a few times as a puppy. He's never had an issue with the muzzle. And he just, he was like, okay, even now he puts his face out. Like he just…
Annie:
that's just how life is
Joanie:
Just like potty training. He just knew what to do. Like I didn't have to, he just did it.
Annie:
So having a dog who does wear a muzzle, then, you know, basically a hundred percent of the time. Except when he's in his crate. What kind of reaction do you get from, from people having a dog in a muzzle?
Joanie:
Either they think it's cute and they go, “Oh, look at him.” Or little kids think he's a horse. They say like a horse. Like, because it looks like reins to them. Um, or there's the people who say, “why is he wearing that? He doesn't need that.” Or “he hates that, take it off. You know, he hates wearing that or he doesn't bite. He doesn't bite. Does he?” And I'm like, “yes, he does.” They're like, “well, he doesn't bite you” and I said, “yes, he does.” You know?
Annie:
Wow.
Joanie:
The people are like, “oh, does he wear that? Cause he, cause he eats off the ground. I said, well, sometimes he does. But this muscle is designed for eating and drinking. So no, he wears it cause he bites.” That's… and when I say it like that, they just look at me like, like your dog bites, like it's unheard of or something.
Annie:
Right. Do you feel like people blame you for his issues ..
Joanie:
They try to tell me he looks so sweet and cute. Like he doesn't really bite and they probably think I'm talking about like a warning nip or something. And that's not what I'm talking about. It's a full blown attack.
Annie:
Right, right. Did you have vets then saying, you know, you should be putting this dog down?
Joanie:
Um, I think by saying, get rid of him. I think that's what they meant.
Annie:
Well true because it's like, where do you send a dog who has this kind of bite history? People have this idea that there's some farm somewhere that takes all the bad dogs..
Joanie:
Or send it back to the breeder. What's the breeder going to do with him if they take him back, you know? And I couldn't send them to a rescue because someone else would have put them down.
Annie:
Yeah.
Joanie:
You know? And I couldn't live with myself if I did that. Like I said, if I had had children human, my own actual children, it would be a totally different story. Because they would be the priority. But I don't. At this point it's just me and Nelson.
Annie:
So I know you've heard me say this before, but people who say it's always the owner's fault that all dog problems are because of the owner that it's, I feel like that's a real maxim that people like to repeat that, people, you know, it's always the owner always the problem. It's never the dog's problem. And I think, gosh, that's so not true because like the dogs that we see who have really serious issues at School for the Dogs always have amazing owners. Because if they didn't have amazing owners who were devoted to trying to solve this problem, they wouldn't be, they wouldn't exist. They wouldn't be keeping these dogs.
Joanie:
Like when I see people and they're like, “my dog barks all the time” and I'm like, I wish that was my problem. You know, he never barks. He only barks if he knows like food, like if he hears the doorbell, he got like “ruff, ruff” and that's momma go get the food, you know? Like, like that's the only time he barks, he doesn't, you know, he doesn't give me any other trouble.
Annie:
And he's incredibly well-trained you do lot. We've done tricks classes together with him.
Joanie:
I wanted him to be an actor. He took the acting class. He wanted to play. Like he's not.
Annie:
Yeah. But I think it's cool that you do that kind of stuff to help give his mind a work out when he has so many other limitations, but you've taught him to jump over your leg and when he can ride a skateboard
Joanie:
He can wink.
Annie:
He can wink oh my goodness. And you taught that with a clicker, right?
Joanie:
Um, yeah. I mean, since his ear infection, he's kind of having little trouble, like, it's kinda more of like a double blink, but..
Annie:
What's the cue for wink?
Joanie:
“Wink at Mama.” I'll go like this Nelson “wink at mama.” And I noticed he does that. If we're in a crowded elevator, he looks at me and starts winking. Like that's like a little cue to me.
Annie:
Huh? Wow.
Joanie:
That's really something we do. Or if we're waiting in line at Walgreens for a prescription, we wink at each other. Like he just starts winking at me.
Annie:
I love that.
Joanie:
Me too.
Annie:
I mean, it just goes back to dog training. I think about being about like two way communication. I say that all the time to people like… it's not people say, “Oh, you're training me.” I'm like, “well kind of, but it's really like, I'm training both of you to communicate better with one another.” Because like that's what a relationship is about.
And you're really tuned into his body language. Right? Talk to me about like his, uh, I guess we can call them, displacement behaviors or stress relief behaviors.
Joanie:
We're basically together 24 hours a day. Maybe that's why he's so sick of me.
Annie:
No he loves you like crazy.
Joanie:
I talk to him all day long. Um, I sing to him all day long. He has little songs for, just for Nelson. But I'm like everything we do, he knows like certain words, like if I say “let's go on an adventure,” he knows we're leaving Stuy Town. And it probably means we're going to see the C-A-T-S at Petco.
Annie:
Oh he likes to go see them?
Joanie:
Oh, the wall of cats. I have to whisper.
Annie:
That’s his favorite thing?
Joanie
Speaking to Nelson
A cat? Nelson, the cats?
Annie:
Speaking to Nelson
Nelson, you want to go see some cats?
Joanie:
He's so relaxed right now.
Annie:
All right. Let's let him go.
Joanie:
Oh, he said, are they here?
Annie:
Speaking to Nelson
Are der cats here?
Joanie:
Speaking to Nelson
They're not here. They're not here. You can lay down, lay down, baby.
Annie:
What is, so tell me about stretching.
Joanie:
So like if we're gonna.. if he knows the route to get to Petco and I take a different street, he'll go into this deep, deep stretch and he crosses his front paws and lets out like the squeaky yawn. And then it's like, “okay, okay, we're going to go this way. I see what she's doing.” But like he has his certain routines. Like there's certain things like when we come home, he's on the leash with the muzzle. We come in the door, he knows, he goes right to his water bowl and we've gotten to the point where I could put my hands on him and take the muzzle off while he's drinking the water and that's huge. I know it doesn't sound like anything, but for us that's a huge thing that he knows that I'm just taking the muzzle off so he can drink. And before I, usually before I touch him, I say “mama” to him. So he knows it's me. Like I know I never just reach for him. I know people don't relate to that, but I can't just reach for him and touch him. I always announce that I'm about to do it.
Annie:
That's really smart, that’s something I talk to puppy owners about or dogs who have… people who have small dogs, especially. Tell your dog, you're gonna pick your dog up. It's nice to give them that warning.
Joanie:
You know, those words have actually become the threat when he's not behaving, which I know is bad.
Annie:
What?
Joanie:
“I'm gonna pick you up.” But when I actually do pick them up, I don't use those words. I just grab them.
Annie:
I wonder, you know, he's probably in some way made the association between the water and the muzzle. I wonder almost if you could use the delivery of the water to teach him that about you taking the muzzle off. Like if you started to take off the muzzle first and then gave him the water.
Joanie:
Sometimes I do, but he's in such a rush that he rushes into the kitchen, he’ss still on the leash.
Annie:
Well that if you want, if you wanted to try and train a behavior of… I mean, I'm hesitant to suggest it because it sounds like everything you're doing is working well enough
Joanie:
It’s working that he hasn't gotten on me.
Annie:
Yeah. Don't mess that up. But if you felt like if you felt like experimenting, I would experiment with starting to take the muzzle off, picking a water bowlup before you go out.
Joanie:
Oh, okay.
Annie:
And then I'm starting to take the muzzle off and offer him the water bowl as soon as you do that, just separating those two things.
Joanie:
Yeah.
Annie:
Because then you could also start adding a cue to taking the muzzle off, the cue being, you know, like I'm going to take your muzzle off.
Joanie:
Yeah. I just say “mama” to him. And he knows. Or like when he had his ear infection to put the drops in which amazingly he let me do, I have no idea, like certain things he lets me do. I just say “mama fix.” When I say “mama fix,” he knows I'm going to adjust something.
Annie:
Interesting.
Joanie:
So “mama fix ear.” I talk to him, I used to be a preschool teacher. So I talked to him as if.. like very simple sentences sometimes, you know,
Annie:
I think that’s smart and by, you know, basically you're just adding cues to things that you're doing anyway, which is the process really of teaching any kind of language, but keeping it simple is key and keeping it consistent is key. And I think you have really good instincts in those directions.
Joanie:
Thank you.
Annie:
What kind of muzzle are you using and what other ones have you tried?
Joanie:
We basically only use the Baskerville and then they introduced the Baskerville ultra.
Annie:
What's the difference between those two?
Joanie:
The original Baskerville had a blunt, front part to it. And the ultra, they changed it a little bit. I think that's what the difference was. And now Coastal makes the same exact model, but it's like a more pliable muzzle and the Baskerville ultra is like really hard.
Annie:
And is he able to eat through it?
Joanie:
Yeah, these are designed for eating and drinking and panting and the Coastal one, since it's pliable, you could pick up a tennis ball with it on.
Annie:
So you use that one sometimes too.
Joanie
Yeah. I think if I really had to worry about him biting someone, I'd put the hard one on, but when he's just me and him and he's playing outside, I put the softer one on him, but they both do, they're exactly the same. It's just, they're different materials.
Annie:
So having come through this journey, let’s call it.
Joanie:
Oh, but, sorry. So when he's done with the water, I take him with his leash right to his cage and he knows that there's no deviation, ;ike he knows that I lead him right to the cage, unhook his snoot loop, his head halter and he goes right in. But if I hesitate or change any single thing in that routine, I could risk getting bite.
Annie:
Well, it's interesting because I mean, really it's the same with people who are high anxiety, let's call it.
Joanie:
He's super high anxiety
Annie:
You know, needing routine, needing regularity.
Joanie:
It's like autism, almost someone said once, it's almost like he's autistic.
Annie:
Well, what's interesting in that behavioral science,sort of, has three places where it's really been embraced more than other place, although I think behavioral science applies to everything in my opinion, but animal training, one area, work management, safety management is another area. And then the probably the biggest area is ABA, applied behavior analysis with kids, specifically autistic kids, kids with issues. And it's really just about breaking things down to their smallest components. Being very clear with giving information when something is done correctly, managing situations. So carefully so that your child you're working with doesn't have a chance to do the wrong thing.
Joanie:
Yeah, I always try to set him up for success, like whatever it is, like if I know it's going to be a problem, I just avoid it. You know, like manage.
Annie:
Yeah, management is a huge part of it.
Joanie:
There's no reason to even just see what happens. You know, like if I see a big dog coming, we'll probably cross the street unless we know the dog. Or if he seems like, if he seems like he wants to approach it, I wait to see if he pulls me towards it without a crazy growl or anything. But like, whatever the situation, like if we came in here and there were loose toys, I would know let's take them off the floor because it's setting him up for a disaster. You know, like I always try to just avoid any triggers for him as much as I can. And maybe I should let him experience that. I don't know. I just feel like at this point it's better to avoid.
Annie:
No, I think you are doing absolutely the right thing. And I think it's, you know, on the one hand it makes so much sense that it seems like duh obvious on the other hand, you know, I think there are a lot of people who would say, uh, no, he needs to learn that there could be toys on the ground and dah, dah, dah, dah, dah,
Joanie:
or like, why should I have to change? Like if I go to my mom's and she has like Christmas decorations out at Christmas time, like she really decorates. I always say like, “can you please take them off the floor? Like the only thing that looks like a stuffed animal, just please take them off the floor because you know, he's going to go crazy. He's gonna want it. He's going to think it's a toy. And we won't be able to take it away from him. Like it's going to be a disaster.”
And she's like, “well, why this is my house? And, and then like, she does it, you know, like she gets it, but like other people would be like, why, like, “why do I have to change my life for him?” I'm like, I'm not asking anything unreasonable. You know?
It's like, if you see a knife and you have a toddler, you're not going to leave the knife on the table.
Annie:
Right. I think it's, it's, it's a lot of stuff that we do that we think of as like obvious with small children, but with dogs, we don't. We expect more of them somehow in the fact is, you know, they, they have teeth that could kill us and toddlers don’t.
Annie:
I did a whole series on the podcast. I call it The Dog Training Triad with one episode on, on management, one on rewards and one on timing. And to me that's really like the crux of, of pretty much any kind of training you're doing needs to first address how you're going to create a very well managed situation where you're upping the chances of your dog succeeding and not letting your dog have a lot of opportunities to do the wrong thing. Because people think of positive reinforcement as something that like we do to the animal. But, you know, every time he's bitten anyone it's been positively reinforced. Right? Because like, if, you know, biting feels good and, you know, and or negatively reinforced in that, you know, negative reinforcement is that something is taken away in order to encourage the behavior. And if he bites someone, they go away.
Joanie:
Yeah. Yeah.
Annie:
So rather than, you know, risking the behaviors, you don't want to be reinforced or going to be reinforced, I think the smarter route, especially when you're dealing with a really potentially dangerous animal is to be very thoughtful about management, which sounds like you've figured out possibly the hard way, but that you're also doing very naturally.
Joanie:
And have people say like, you know, “does he still have to wear the muzzle? Is he always going to have to wear it?” I say, “yes.” Like, why would I take it off and set them up for a situation where he's going to fail? Eventually he's going to bite. I know he will, you know, and he just, he's not going to be fixed. He'll be maintained the rest of his life, but he's not going to be fixed. You know, nothing's going to fix it.
Annie:
Knowing what you know now about, about life with Nelson and I guess dog training in general, if you could go back and talk to yourself, when, for instance, you were sending him away to the person who was choking him or to the vet who suggested hitting him. And what would you… what advice would you give yourself as far as training goes.
Joanie:
God, I guess, um, I should have listened to my instinct when I thought, well, I did, because I never went back to that vet. But like when it doesn't sound right, like when I first saw the methods of him putting his hands all over Nelson, like “tsk, tsk” with all that poking. And I knew that wasn't, it just didn't sound right. You know, I just think maybe I should have just trusted that, you know, I had a Yorkie, we never did it. We never had training. We didn't know anything about dogs and he was fine, you know, I could do whatever I wanted to him. And like, I had never had to think about like being dominant or being in charge all the time, or like, you know, you have to show that you're the boss. I never even thought about anything like that was our baby. And like, the name was Teddy. We all carried him around like a baby. We treated him, you know, and he never bit us.
So I don't, I didn't think that the advice I was getting from these other people about being dominant and, you know, I don't think that's why he was biting because I mean, I'm only comparing it to my Yorkie, but I never had to do any of that to make him not bite me. He just, you know, like you could baby your dog and he's not going to bite you.
Annie:
Well, you could baby this dog though. And he might bite you, but you could also hit him with a newspaper and he might bite you.
Joanie:
Exactly. Like people, baby, their dogs all over the place and they don't get bit. So it wasn't about me being….
Annie:
… indulgent
Joanie:
Exactly.
Annie:
You know, Dr. Spock's whole thing..
Joanie:
The psychologist?
Annie:
Yeah, you know, who wrote about raising children or whatever. His big thing was like, you know, more than you think you do. Oh, and I think, I believe the same thing so much with dog training where it's like, something should make sense. Something should innately make sense because we know, I mean, if only because, I mean, same thing with children, like we know more than we think we do because we were that baby. We know more than we think we do as animal trainers, all of us, because we are animals and we work at training each other all the time, you know, in subtle ways. And, and if, yeah, if it doesn't make sense, I think it's always…it should be a red flag. But like, like we were saying, like you were saying before, it's like, when you're so desperate for a solution…I always say like, I feel like sometimes I could go into a situation with a client and be like, okay, the thing you need to do to solve this problem is jump up and down three times on one foot and yell the word raspberry. And like they would do it because it's like, the expert is telling me this and she knows better than I do.
Joanie:
Exactly.
Annie:
But like, that's not the dog trainer I want to be. I want to be the dog trainer who comes in and, and, you know, says things in a way that makes sense. I mean also presenting effective solutions.
What do you …when people say, why is he like this? What do you say?
Joanie:
That's just how he is, I mean, there's… nobody knows. You know, it's funny. Cause like I know he's not relaxed even though, I think, he looks perfectly relaxed to a normal person coming in here…
Annie:
You’re so tuned into him.
Joanie:
He's so on edge that he's behaving great. We'll go to the vet or the groomer. He's so good that he's never given a problem at the vet or the groomer because he's so scared. He does whatever they say. He's like the perfect, perfect dog. He never, he might squirm a little on the vet table, but even in the end we took a cab here. That's the only time he loves me is that I could pick them up in the cab and he just melts in my arms. Cause he's so scared of the car.
Annie:
Hm Hm.
Joanie:
You know
Annie:
Speaking to Nelson
Mommy takes good care of you Nelson.
Joanie
It’s because he's scared. Like right now he doesn't know where he is. He's not sure why we're here. And he looks perfectly happy, relaxed, and calm, but I know he's not.
Annie:
So interesting in that it, again, it's like he needs his routine.
Joanie:
He needs his routine. And even when it's time for me to grab that leash, I'm going to be a little scared cause I know reaching for it could be a problem. So I'm gonna wait till like he's walking a little and the leash is dragging and I'm gonna gonna distract him a little bit. And it's going to be like a quick grab of the leash…I know, like I know all these things, but it took me eight years
Annie:
… to figure it out.
Joanie:
Like if I'm going to pet him, first of all, he only likes to be petted on this wall that comes up to my hip that’s in Stuy Town. He jumps on the wall and I know he wants me to pet him. And that's pretty much the only place he really lets me or like, if we're crossing the street at the crosswalk, he'll let me rub his ears. But I can't just like pet him. And I know…
Annie:
I also know that you bring him to the dog park, but you guys play outside of the dog park.
Joanie:
Dog park means we stand outside the fence and watch the dogs like it's television and he loves it, but he can't handle playing like that.
Annie:
That's really cool that you've figured out these ways to like give him..
Joanie:
Oh he loves the dog park.
Speaking to Nelson:
Dog park?
Annie:
… give him a good life. Even within the confines of…
Joanie:
Speaking to Nelson
School?
He knows school. That's your favorite word?
Annie:
His head just whipped around.
Joanie:
We've been going to Boris and Horton.
Annie:
Oh really?
Joanie:
We go only five or 10 minutes before close. Okay. I call that “school”too. He doesn't know. But um, yeah. That's like dog park. We only go like either to stand outside it or we go when nobody's there.
Annie:
So I don't, you know, I was saying, why do you think he's like this? I think a lot of people would, say something like, you know, it must be because he was abused as a puppy or something. But I think it's more likely that, you know, in a way you did get a lemon in that you got a dog who just has a unique, unusual brain chemistry, just like, you know, some people can be raised in the perfect household and have no stresses and to say,
Joanie:
Well, well, years ago a neighbor told me to watch a movie called, There's something about Kevin, I think that's the name of it. And basically it's this boy and his mother's really, oh and it's the whole family, but she knew from early on, there was something psychopathic about her son, but she loves her son and she loved him.
Annie:
Is this a true story?
Joanie:
No, I don't know if it's a true story, but it was pretty great movie. And then eventually, you know, he's a teenager and then, you know, the end is shocking and I don’t want to give the end of the movie away. But, the whole movie was like, it wasn't the mother's fault that her son turned out the way he was. And she was afraid of him, but she loved him ‘cause it was her son. Pretty good movie. And someone told me that's Nelson.
Annie:
Yeah. You know, we all come with our own special blend of what makes us who we are. And I mean, then that's evolution for you. You know, like you plant five seeds from an apple tree, you get five different kinds of apple trees. And it’s like in some, I don't know, dystopian world, he would be the most, he might be the most prepared dog for survival.
Joanie:
Awesome.
I had this dream, this is so stupid. I had this dream like a while ago or, you know, zombie dream, you know, I watch all those shows. So like the zombies were coming and he fell off this little plank he was walking across. I remember he fell and I'm like, the thing is just keep fighting, Nelson, because I knew he'd be okay. I was like, just keep fighting, keep fighting. ‘cause I knew like he's not going to be phased by these zombies.
Annie:
Right? You know, in like a warrior scenario.
Joanie:
I was like, he knows what to do..
Annie:
In like a Mad Max scenario. Nelson comes out on top.
Joanie:
I have friends who have said, if the apocalypse comes, they want him on their team. I said, if I would tie him to a stick and be like, like just have his mouth just keep going.
Annie:
Right, he doesn't…
Joanie:
I would use him. Like he would be the weapon to save everybody.
Annie:
The survival of the fittest has produced a lot of, you know, dogs who are cute and cuddly and happy to be on the couch and get walked three times a day and kiss and cuddle. And then, but it's also, it also created Nelson.
Joanie:
Listen, if he got loose, he would know where to go. He would go right to Bagel Boss. He would go there for food. He would go to Ace for his cookie. He knows exactly where the stops are.
Annie:
Well, you know, a lot of times, you know, dogs who just like, again so much like people, I think a lot of times people who are, you know, severely anxious or severely depressed or have, you know, some kind of neuroses are also the smartest, most tuned in people.
Joanie:
He knows how to get everywhere.
Annie:
They say like, people who are very depressed are actually better at predicting the future than the rest of us, because they're so tuned into the way things are. And you know, he might just have like a hypervigilance. He's a really smart dog.
Joanie:
He's super smart. And I know that he knows what's going on. He knows not to bite. He just can't help it. Yeah. And that's why he wants to kiss you afterwards. Like he blacks out, you know, he blacks out for a minute and then he shakes it off and he's like, “Hey, what's what's going on guys.”
Annie:
I think a lesson to be learned from the whole thing is like, not like you said, like not every problem can be solved, but you know, that doesn't mean you can't work with it and live with it. It's just might require like ..
Joanie:
…maintenance
Annie:
….maintenance, and like a major upheaval of your life. And a lot of commitment, which frankly, I don't think a lot of people would do, but like, you know, you have both the lifestyle temperament and will to,…
Joanie:
… perfect storm.
Annie:
…provide for this, you know, amazing, amazing dog.
**music**
Joanie:
Everyday at the end of the day, I say to him, Nelson, we made it. We just do one day at a time. That's all. That's all we can do.
Speaking to Nelson
Oh, what a good boy. Good boy.
—
Annie:
Fun Dog Fact of the Day, according to the website, thepethistorian.com, which I recently discovered and have been enjoying,up until around 1917 in Philadelphia, you could have a dog off leash whenever you wanted, as long as the dog was wearing a wire basket muzzle and a collar with the owner's name, inscribed on a metal plate. So putting a dog in a muzzle was considered the ethical thing to do and leashing a dog wasn't required.
And our Woof Shout Out today goes to our student Zuri and her very devoted owner, Anita. Zuri is a Bolognese, which is a very adorable fluffy, white breed of dog. And the reminder that dogs wear muzzles for all kinds of reasons. For example, some dogs eat stuff off the street and wear muzzles to keep them from doing that.
In Zuri’s case, from what I understand, Anita decided to muzzle train Zuri, to keep people from harassing her for being so adorable on the street. That people were coming up to her, wanting to pick her up and mess with her on the street because she does indeed look like a stuffed animal. And Anita figured out that having a muzzle on Zuri was a good way to encourage people to keep some distance from her. So never make assumptions about dogs wearing muzzles on the street. You never know why the dog might actually have one.
Huge thank you to Toast Garden. Toast Garden is a band that, if you can believe, it is located in Tasmania. I started communicating with them on YouTube and they did this really lovely ukulele cover of the song, Love is Strange.
As regular listeners of those podcasts might know, I really like using ukulele covers on the show. I'm very careful to use songs that are in the public domain. And I tend to find a song that's in the public domain and then I see if I can find someone who has covered it. And occasionally when I can't find a cover, I like, I've reached out to Toast Garden to see if they would consider covering it. And we've kind of developed this really neat jukebox style relationship where I say, “Hey, what do you think of this song? Do you think you could do a version of it?” And then a few days later, they send me this beautiful recording of one of these songs. Anyway, that was the case of this version of Love is Strange, which I hope you enjoyed.
You can find them on YouTube at youtube.com/toast garden.
Links:
Behavior Vets NYC, Dr Christensen
