07 NovEpisode 32 | Let’s talk about NYC’s 1st dog-friendly cafe with Logan Mikhly
Earlier this year Logan Mikhly and her father Coppy Holzman opened a business unlike any other in NYC: A dog-friendly cafe. Logan has a background in animal rescue, Coppy is a dog-loving serial entrepreneur, and both are obsessed with coffee. Frustrated by the fact that New York's health codes make it nearly impossible for them to grab a cup of joe without having to tie their dogs to a streetlight, they contacted the Department of Health for a brainstorming session on how to make a place where beverages and quadrupeds could lawfully co-exist. The result is Boris & Horton. Named after their own dogs, this bright, cheery, and well-loved cafe-cum-indoor-dog-park has quickly become a beloved neighborhood fixture. In this episode, Logan shares the business' back story.
Subscribe: iTunes
Transcript:
Annie:
Today I am speaking with Logan Mikhly, who is one of the owners of New York city's first and only dog friendly cafe, Boris and Horton, which is in the East village and is named after, well, actually, Logan, why don't you tell us about the cafes namesakes?
Logan:
I actually have Horton here with me and the other dog that the cafe's named after is Boris and that's my dad's dog.
Annie:
And Horton, I should say is just the cutest, scruffiest, little like terrier mix who loves nothing more than to stare lovingly at Logan.
Logan:
Yes, stare deeply into my eyes. He does need a haircut. He looks scruffy, but he looks like a little, maybe a little too scruffy.
Annie:
I think he's perfectly, perfectly scruffy.
Logan:
He has like grandpa eyebrows now.
Annie:
And Logan runs Boris and Horton with her dad. So tell me his name.
Logan:
Yeah, his name is Coppy Holzman. Okay. So I actually worked with my dad at his previous company, which is called Charity Buzz and it's an online auction company that raises money for nonprofits. So he was in the process of selling the business.
Annie:
He's something of a serial entrepreneur, isn't that right?
Logan:
Yes. So for my whole childhood and up until now, he's started several different businesses, sold them. Uh, he's super creative, big ideas guy. But yeah, his previous company, Charity Buzz is an online auction company that raises money for nonprofits. And he was in the process of selling it. And we were actually out to dinner one night and I was staying at the company, but I wasn't kind of like loving the company culture and was thinking about leaving myself. And so we both just said like, “why don't we do something together?” Um, my brother actually worked at Charity Buzz with us and him and my dad did not work well together. So they're great as actual family, but don't work well together in an office. But me and my dad work really well together. We kind of know what our, like, lanes are and we're often on the same page about things we need to be on the same page about. And we have, we each bring unique expertise and vision to the idea and kind of like work really well in parallel with each other. And there's a lot of respect there.
Annie:
And you had a background in dog rescue. Tell me how that got started.
Logan:
Yeah, so I lived in New Orleans, that's where I went to college and I stayed there a bit after college. But basically I was looking for a volunteer opportunity and New Orleans is a little bit different than New York because you kind of see stray dogs on the street, you see Pitbull puppies being sold out of a cage in the park or you see dogs tied up outside of people's homes. Like it's not the best place to be a dog. So I wanted to volunteer in an animal shelter and I just kinda got sucked in from there.
I found a small shelter run by a single woman and my sort of responsibility there just grew and grew and grew. Like I started just cleaning cages and then volunteering at adoption events. And it became like taking home dogs, taking home parvo puppies or litters of dogs with, like, demodex and getting them healthy. Um, and just, it sort of became my life. So I was becoming, or I was in school to become a teacher. And I realized that all of my lesson plans for my students were about dogs. And I was like, “Oh, maybe I'm more passionate about this.” So I stayed in New Orleans for a while. And then through a series of sort of unfortunate circumstances, the rescue became mine.
Annie:
Wow, a lot of, a lot of responsibility to inherit at a young age.
Logan:
Yeah, exactly. And so I worked with some other volunteers and the woman who ran it, her family just sort of rehome all the dogs. And at that point, most of the dogs in the shelter were probably more like sanctuary-type dogs. So ones with health problems, like there was one Corgi mix that was paralyzed from her waist down just from having so many litters or just a lot of dogs that were dog-aggressive, which is really hard in New Orleans because there's not so many homes. So it's kinda like if you want a dog, you're gonna find one or adopt one, and it's hard to find homes that don't already have a dog in them.
Annie:
We like to think that there's the home out there for every dog.
Logan:
I believe that, I mean, I still definitely believe that it's just harder. And particularly when you have dogs with these like difficult backstories, I mean, we still had dogs, this was a few years ago, we still had dogs that were Katrina rescues that sort of like never found a home.
But we were able to find homes for all of the dogs, a couple of them were sanctuaries. Um, and then one of the rescues that took a few of them was a connection that was made during Hurricane Katrina. And they volunteered to take dogs that they don't typically take. Just cause they heard about this story and heard that we were desperate. So that was great. Um, but once that got handled and the property got sold. I sort of definitely had, I didn't think I wanted to do the rescue anymore because it was really emotional and difficult. But coming up with this idea with my dad has been great because we are super involved in the rescue world, but it's sort of like the warm and fuzzy.
Annie:
How did you hit on this idea? Because there, there are certainly cat cafes, that's something that's really taken off in the last five or six years throughout the world. But I haven't encountered a dog cafes that I've read about even in other parts of the world that are friendlier to having dogs around food, for example, how did you come up with this idea?
Logan:
Well, it's exactly that we were inspired by the cat cafes. My dad and I were walking in the West Village, one day, with our two dogs and we want to get coffee, something that we're both obsessed with. We both drink a ton of coffee. And one of us had to stay on the sidewalk with the two dogs while the other person went in. When we started of noticed that there was a group like clustered outside the coffee shop with dogs and like no way to place their order with their dog. So we thought that that would be sort of a revolutionary idea for New Yorkers.
And we knew that the cat cafes had just started opening. So we figured that there was some way to work with the health department to sort of do maybe a separate space, two separate spaces and figure it out what their blessing. So the next thing we did was just have a meeting with the health department and say, “if we wanted to do this concept, how would we do it?”
Annie:
Hmm. And was that, that sounds like a hard thing to do. Just to get a meeting with them.
Logan:
No, honestly the hardest part was just getting that meeting because they would say, “what do you want to talk about?” And I would say, “I want to talk about having a dog friendly cafe” and they'd say “no such thing. You can't have dogs and people or dogs and food together.” And I would say, “no, I'm trying to do it the right way, like the cat cafe, can I please have a meeting?” And it's like a bureaucracy, city department.
Annie:
Absolutely
Logan:
So like there was a lot, there was a lot to just kind of get the lady on the phone to understand what I was trying to do. But once we got the meeting, we actually found that they were super helpful. They were like, Oh, I do understand exactly what you're trying to do concept wise. And here's how you would do it. Like there's no negotiating, there's no, oh, but that doesn't work. Like I want to do it this way. They were like, this is how you would do it. This is exactly how you would do it. There's no straying from those guidelines. But if you do it exactly like that, we will give you a permit.
Annie:
So what it looks like to me, the way that you have it set up and you know, please correct me, is it's almost like you have a cafe that actually has absolutely nothing to do with dogs, although it kind of has like a doggy theme to it. But anyone could just enjoy it as its own cafe. And the only thing that's maybe different than other cafes is it has a window that faces the street and then you have a completely separate space right next to it that I'm guessing follows the rules of like a dog daycare, as far as the city is concerned and people can then go into that space with whatever they get from the other space. Is that, is that basically right?
Logan:
Yeah
Annie:
The staff, the staff is separate.
Logan:
Yes.
Annie:
People, there's no waiter service, is that right?
Logan:
Exactly. So yeah, the way the health department sees it is two adjacent spaces with sort of a vestibule connection. But the big key thing for them is that the vestibule, aka the double doors that we call, we call it double doors, also have an exit to the street. So the way they look at it is you can visit the cafe. You can grab food or drinks and it's your choice, whether or not you want to go outside onto the street or into this adjacent dog-friendly area. So when they come to do their permitting and all of that, they actually don't even look at the dog friendly side because they're only concerned with the… like the same thing that they would be concerned with with any cafe.
Annie:
Right. But you know, running a dog training studio, I still have to deal with the Department of Health for other things.
Logan:
Yes. So we originally, we didn't have to get any sort of permit for the Department of Health and we still don't really fall specifically into any of their categories ‘cause we're not boarding animals, we're not training animals, we're not grooming animals, but I did get the small animal handling permit.
Annie:
I had to get that to the two day class.
Logan:
Great. It’s a lot of fun.
Annie:
For the uninitiated, there's this two day class, you have to take if you run anything that kind of vaguely falls in…because we too are not totally in the category, but anything that falls into like pet store, animal handling, boarding, and it's called a …
Logan:
Small animal handling. Yes but it's even if you have like a dog walking company with no…
Annie:
Facility?
Logan:
Facility.
Annie:
Oh, I thought it had to do, it was pegged to a facility. Well, I don't know. I went and took it like four years ago and it was so boring and it seems so irrelevant. They'd be like, what is, what kind of chemicals can or cannot be used near a fish tank.
Logan:
Exactly.
Annie:
And I literally like slept through 80% of it. Not realizing that there was an exam at the end that you had to take and they only offer it once a year. So if you fail this exam, you're basically screwed for another year. And I think the passing grade on the exam was 73 and I got like 75.
Logan:
Yeah, no, it's really specific. It's very specific. And the thing that kind of bummed me out was like, you had the same, the same people in the room with you are like puppy mill pet store owners. And they're telling you like how to take care of dogs and pet stores in a way that like treated them sort of more like property.
It was, yeah. It was like a real bummer. I did hate it.
Annie:
I remember also feeling like they talked exceedingly slow and gave amazing amounts of breaks where I was like, “Oh my God, if you guys just spoke a little faster and got rid of all these breaks, we could be done here in like three hours rather than spending like two days.” But anyway.
Logan:
Well, so for me, so yeah, it's offered like very rarely and they assign you a date. And the date they assigned me was when the Real Housewives were taping at the cafe. And I was like super bummed because I just really wanted to be a fly on the wall for that. And instead I was in some like basement in Harlem learning about gerbil feed, but that's fine. I passed.
Annie:
Yeah. We won't compare grades cause I have a feeling you did …
Logan:
Actually. No, I remember you saying that or maybe Anna from School for the Dogs said that you had to do it and then, but there was a test. So I remembered that and I paid a little bit more.
Annie:
So you opened about nine months ago, is that right?
Logan:
Yeah. In February.
Annie:
Okay. And since then you've expanded.
Logan:
Yes.
Annie:
Okay. So it's, it's a really beautiful space. I think you've guys have done an amazing job at making something that is like a place where humans want to be. And that's, that's always sort of been a pet peeve of mine as far as dog places go and something we've also tried to do at School for the Dogs was make a place that humans want to hang out because like dog daycares are not places where people want to spend any time, in my opinion. And I really liked the idea of being able to like have a destination where you can go to with your dog because yeah, I find it, it really is this, like,unaddressed problem that I guess, I mean, I say that, and then I'm a little bit like first world problems. I can't bring my dog in when I go get coffee.
Logan
Well, I think it's a real problem.
Annie:
But, you know,my husband for his work we spend a lot of time in Rome and, and in France and they're so dog-friendly, and in both Italy and France, it's not a big deal where you bring your dog. And whereas here it always drives me crazy that like, like there's a Duane Reade near my house and like, I can bring the dog in there and they all kind of like, look the other way, but they're not supposed to be there. But one time my dog was, like, sniffing. I don't know, like a bag of Cheetos or like the Snickers bars or something and this guy, like another customer started yelling at me, he's like, your dog is sniffing food that people are going to eat. And I'm like through the packaging, like he's probably, you know, cleaner than some of the people who are handling that food also through the packaging,
Is it, are there different rules about serving coffee and having food?
Logan:
So for us, the big things are-obviously there's a separate space. There's a separate staff on either side. So you can't leave the coffee bar as a staff member, behind the bar, go into the dog side and then go back behind the coffee bar. You're sort of you get contaminated,
Annie:
Which is crazy, right?
Logan:
I don't know. And then like, everything's disposable. So we wouldn't have like a ceramic coffee mug and then go have it go into the dog side and then back to like the sink behind the coffee bar. So those are sort of the big things.
Annie:
Did you think about if you had just decided to have coffee and no food, would the rules have been the same?
Logan:
No. So I believe in other cities, like just beverages that have a different thing, different rule, and I know like roasteries and breweries are different ‘cause they're Department of Agriculture, but for us, anything that you put in your mouth counts under these rules.
But the one nice thing is like, because it is so strict and we are the only ones who are doing it, right, like we sort of have a competitive edge. Like if there was a way that you could just serve coffee and have dogs inside, like it would already be done.
Annie:
What about cat cafes? Are they set up the same way that you're set up?
Logan:
Pretty similar, but the difference is that they're boarding cats. So it's not like the cats are like walking through the front door and back out again. So like their setup is a little bit different, but they do also have like a double doors thing and same sort of view on food contamination.
Annie:
So tell me about like the dream that you had versus the reality that exists now. How is it similar or different in ways that you maybe wouldn't have expected?
Logan:
I think that's pretty spot on my dream.
Annie:
Really, wow.
Logan:
I mean, the feeling I get when I'm in there, probably the one thing that is annoying, but we dealt with is just the lack of waitress service. Like we'd rather be able to bring everyone there, food and drinks and that's probably the one thing that feels like a slight annoyance. But otherwise, like we feel like we kind of, we feel awesome because we were able to take this, like, crazy set of rules and like make something that is actually pretty user friendly and pretty spot on with what people want to be doing with their dogs. But yeah, it'd be nice if somebody brought you your food and drink instead of having to grab it yourself
Annie:
You know, um, I think it's called Chateau
Logan:
Le Woof. Yeah.
Annie:
In Astoria. How is that set up similarly or differently? Because I haven't been there, but I've heard that that's also like a dog friendly place where you can get coffee.
Logan:
So I think it's pretty similar to what we've done, but I do have to go check it out ‘cause I'm not, not a hundred percent sure. I've seen pictures and I've heard definitely good things about it. Um, and I know that they were sort of doing things under the radar. They actually existed before we did, they were doing things under the radar health department-wise. And then I know they got a new space and I would imagine with the new space that they're probably up to compliance now.
Annie:
Are there other in America that you've been inspired by or outside of America?
Logan:
Yeah. So there's a dog cafe in LA, which is different than what we are. We call ourselves a dog friendly cafe, but not a dog cafe. The idea being that dogs that come to our cafe are brought in by their owners versus like dogs live there. But there's a dog cafe in LA, that's also kind of an adoption center. So I think that's really cool. ‘Cause they're basically making adoption a bit friendlier and more comfortable and more approachable which I’m super into.
Annie:
And what is that place called?
Logan:
I think it's just called Dog Cafe LA. I follow them on Instagram. They're always posting really cute dog pictures. And then I used to live in New Orleans where I think the rules are like much less strict. And there's a bar called The Bulldog where there's this great outside sort of patio for dogs, but you do have to go through the bar to get your dog over there, but I think that's allowed,
Annie:
There’s kind of places like that, like DBA in the East Village, right?
Logan:
Shh. Yeah. So there's places that are doing it that I don't…I try not to name cause they're doing it.
Annie:
They shouldn’t be
Logan:
Not the right way, but they're getting away with it. I mean, I'm sure they've had their fair share of tickets and things, but I just don't talk about those cause I like it there, so I don't want them to get in trouble.
Annie:
Right, right. Tell me about, well, let's see. So for someone who hasn't been to Boris and Horton, how would you describe the experience of going in there?
Logan:
I mean, I can tell, so the register where I stand faces of the door and I just think it's really cool. I watch people come in for the first time and their faces just like light up. Like where am I like, like what is this heavenly place? So it's a dog friendly cafe you're going to come in. There's two double doors that allow dogs to be off leash. It's like the dog park where you open one door at a time. And it's a super bright, well lit space, super colorful. And you're just gonna see people sitting at tables, drinking, eating, hanging out and there's dogs at their feet, like just playing and begging for treats.
Annie:
So how do you deal with the issue of people coming in off the streets with dogs who might not be appropriate for that kind of situation?
Logan:
So it's really rare. I think it's very different than the dog park, which the dog park gets like all walks of life, all kinds of dog owners. It gets super high energy. There's a lot of fights just happen because of the environment. Our space, I think, that the dog owners are typically much more responsible. They kind of know whether or not their dog would do well in a space like this. But we also, because of School for the Dogs, have some training on dog body language, behavior, how to diffuse situations.
Annie:
Right, right. We gave a little talk to your employees and created like a, a handbook, I think.
Logan:
Exactly. Yeah. So I can always tell when a dog comes in, like the way they're feeling about this space. So if a dog looks super nervous walking in, like I'll make sure that the other dogs are giving them the space they need to get comfortable with the space, be able to like sniff some things, look around and realize, “Oh, I'm not at the vet. I'm at, like, a happy place.” And then we're also sort of just refereeing any sort of playtime. So I definitely make sure that the dogs are getting breaks, even if it's really good play, if it gets super high energy, I want to stop it before it gets to, like, the level of something like the dog park. And owners are really, really receptive to us getting in there. So I was just telling someone today, I've never had an owner say like, don't touch my dog or don't tell me what to do with my dog. Everyone's like totally cool with it. So we're able to manage situations really well. I have had to have people take their dog out or put their dog back on leash or go sit at a different table. So it happens. It's just pretty rare.
Annie:
Hmm. So are sort of a self selecting group of thoughtful people. You know, we have what we call the School Yard, which is like our off-leash play time, but it's only for members and we vet all the dogs and the people like before they come in and even the people have to like take a little written test. So it's a little bit more, like,structured, I guess. But I really think that what makes it work more than anything else is just having someone in charge and frankly, I mean, it's always a trainer in charge, but I think, if there was just anyone in charge at like your average dog park who just had a hat that said like…
Logan:
Listen to me.
Annie:
Yeah, like even if it wasn't someone with like some grand education about dog training, I think that people would be better off because it's interesting that there's this sort of like Lord of the Flies thing that can tend to happen when people are with their dogs off leash and don't trust each other to tell each other stuff.
Like I find that at the dog park all the time, like I want to say something to someone about their dog and you know, I'm pretty confident most of the time that I have more of an expertise than whoever I'm talking to, but I stop myself 99.5% of the time because you know, nobody's going to be appreciative of, you know, this woman coming up to them, telling them what they should be doing with their dog. But just a little bit of that I think can go a long way- lifeguarding, you know?
Logan:
Yeah. It's essentially that. And the nice thing that we can do is we develop relationships with all of the dogs and the people, like we have a lot of regulars. So if I know a dog is not having a good time, I'll say, Hey buddy, you want to come with me and get a treat? Or like, let's play the puzzle game by ourselves. Like, I feel like I'm kind of a nursery school teacher, but like I have no issue whatsoever, like getting in, getting in there and redirecting the situation. I think our jobs would be a lot harder if customers didn't respect us for that or didn't want us to be doing that.
Annie:
One thing I noticed last time I was there, if you're open to a suggestion.
Logan:
Yeah.
Annie:
Would be to have some different levels or another level. Like just kind of like a banquette, but not for people like something a little bit larger, maybe for dogs so that, um, you could separate them without us any kind of, like, gate situation, just separate them by, you know, height. I find, we use these things called, um, Klimbs at our studio. K L I M B. And they're basically just like plastic platforms, but I find that sometimes when dogs are uncomfortable, it's a nice way to create like a different area for them, but you know, the way you're set up, you could have something a little bit more, more permanent.
Logan:
Yeah.
Annie:
Set up like that.
Are there any unexpected challenges that have come up running the space?
Logan:
Not a challenge, but a thing that happens is just because we're super high traffic space with a lot of dogs in it. We do get accidents from dogs that are like, would be fully considered potty train, because they're not sure exactly.
Annie:
Like, where am I? Am I inside or outside?
Logan:
Yeah, exactly. Like it smells like dogs here. But we like to say that we're like, you know, like a NASCAR team, like we just get in there, clean it up and like move on. And people always ask me, like, who did it? Like, I don't care who did it and it's not their fault. Like I'm not here to tattle. I just cleaned it up or somebody cleans it up.
Annie:
Do you have any, any cleaning secrets? Cause it doesn't smell bad in there.
Logan:
No, we just love Nature's Miracle, the hardwood floor one. I think it helps, like it's, it's meant to help pick up the smell so that a dog is not enticed to mark over something. So I think it really helps and it doesn't have like a super chemical sort of smell to it, which I think with the amount that we have to use would be overwhelming. And then when we close, I use Kennelsol on the floors, but if it was a particularly heavy marking day, like I'll just mop with Nature's Miracle. And I like that, but I do feel badly. I feel like we use way too much paper because of the paper towel issue. So if anyone has any suggestions for that, we'd love to hear them.
Annie:
Well. Yeah. I mean, I imagine, and honestly you have to use all disposable.
Logan:
Exactly. Yeah.
Annie:
But, on the other hand, you have a whole rescue component. The problems that maybe are being created by waste are perhaps being solved in another area by helping find dogs home. So tell me about the rescue component of Boris and Horton.
Logan:
Well, one thing I do want to say is all of our plates and cups that are disposable, but they're all pulp wear. So they're, like, eco-friendly cause we knew that we were using a lot, so we didn't want to just be like contributing to that.
But yeah, so probably the most exciting thing for me is the relationships that we've built with different rescues in the area. And the fact that we're able to host rescue events pretty much once a week. So if you come to us on a Saturday, most Saturdays, you'll see a van parked outside of the cafe with adoptable dogs.
Annie
And which rescues are you working with?
Logan:
Primarily we work with Muddy Paws on the adoption events, Animal Control and Bideawee, but whenever we have a fundraiser or something like that, we try to pull in other rescues. So we also work with Foster Dogs a lot. And then we have a weekly trivia night on Thursday.
Annie:
Oh right. I saw that.
Logan:
Yeah, it's really fun. But every Thursday we pick a different animal rescue, which is great. So we pass around a jar. It's the $10 suggested donation, and it's a nice way to fundraise for the rescue. And then also, if you're a supporter of the rescue, you can come that night and hang out with other hangout and mingle with other supporters.
Annie:
It's dog trivia. Is that right?
Logan:
Yeah. So our trivia master is Dan Schachner, the Puppy Bowl ref. And he puts together the questions, but it's dog trivia for the most part, but it could be like, the answer could be like a movie with a “dog” in the name that has nothing to do with dogs. So it's not like you'll have to be crazy to be able to succeed.
Annie:
You also have paint your dog nights. Is that right?
Logan:
Yeah. So we do a portrait painting night with Michelle Cahill and you send her a photo in advance and she sort of sketches out the lines of the painting and then you drink wine and paint it in. And they actually look really good. Yeah.
Annie:
I've seen that. That's neat.
Um, how has it been running a cafe? I mean, having from you going from not having a background in that and your dad, neither, also didn't, right?
Logan:
Yeah. So I'm definitely a total foodie. I've always loved coffee shops. Like on my days off, I like hop from coffee shop to coffee shop. So I'm definitely passionate about it, but we have an operations manager for the cafe side. So she does all of our recipe creation, all of our ordering. She manages the staff on the cafe side. So it's definitely, I definitely know about dogs. I do the dog stuff. She does the cafe stuff.
Annie:
Oh, that's great. So you've been sort of able to outsource that portion of it. I mean, as like running a business myself, the idea of running a business where I need to like restock food every day seems like, yeah, crazy.
Logan:
No, she, we, we definitely need that role. And she's amazing. Even when we expanded from the smaller space to the larger space and it had like probably double or triple the sales on that first weekend, like we ran out a very few items and everything continues to go pretty smoothly and that's clearly a skill that I don't have. So she's been awesome. And then our coffee partner is really great. So we work with City of Saints and they're based in Bushwick, Brooklyn, and they helped us with a lot of the staff training and the menu, the specialty beverage creation and all of that stuff.
Annie:
And then there's also a retail portion of your business.
Logan:
Yeah. So that's probably my favorite part of the job is buying cute dog things. But we've learned a lot about what our customer likes over the past several months. And, uh, we sell a ton of treats and then small sort of accessories. So Horton is wearing right now one of our Lucy & Co Boris and Horton bandanas. And we pull from Lucy and Co's existing stocks somewhat and then some of the patterns are unique to us and all of the bandanas have like a co-branded tag. So we do a lot of that, a lot of partnerships with brands we like, and then whenever possible we work with companies that are based in New York or give back to rescue, which is honestly not hard to find. There are some really great companies out there.
Um, and then one of the fun things that we do is we have a dog bakery case from Maison de Pawz. So if you are eating a pastry with your coffee, your dog can have something pretty similar.
Annie:
Oh, very cute. Oh, I didn't even think of that. So you do have items on the menu specifically for dogs.
Logan:
Yeah. So she does a bakery case. That's all human grade ingredients and then pretty seasonal. So like we have the pumpkin spice donut for fall. Like anytime there's a holiday, she's all over that. And then we also just got a freezer, so we have dog ice cream, so it's like dog frozen yogurt.
Annie:
The Bear and the Rat. Is that the brand that they have?
Logan:
Yeah. So that's really cute ‘ause you like pop the top and you don't need a spoon and then just like lick from it.
Annie:
Oh, that's very adorable.
Have you found that certain treats are more appealing to people and dogs and other kinds of treats? I asked because our business has certain kinds of treats that work, but I think our needs are different.
Logan:
Right. Probably like our, the biggest thing is like the Stewart's freeze dried liver treats.
Annie:
Hmm. I don't, I can't think of what those are. Oh, did they come in like a white and turquoise bin?
Logan:
Yeah.
Annie:
Oh, okay.
Logan:
So those are the ones that we give away to the dogs and that's why they pull their owners in. So they're what we would call like very high value.
Annie:
Someone told me they did the math once and that pound per pound those cost more than lobster.
Logan:
Really. That's funny. I mean, we're buying like major bulk. They're, they're the good ones. Um, and then what, Oh, well we get a lot of allergy things. So we try to accommodate a lot of different allergies, chicken being as you know, probably like the biggest one.
Annie:
Yeah. Poultry.
Logan:
Exactly. And then a lot of our dogs are on the smaller side. So we try to have like soft, easy to eat treats. I would say Bocce’s is probably like one of our biggest sellers just cause they do really fun packaging. It's a high quality treat and then they are super seasonal. So they have just like fun, different themed items.
Annie:
And then you have a lot of things that are like Boris and Horton themed.
Logan:
Yeah. So the one that I'm most proud of is our pet odor eliminator candle. So we always burn a candle in the cafe just to make sure that it smells nice and fresh and not like dogs.
Annie:
I'm all about that.
Logan:
Yeah. So we found a company that, uh, white labels candles and we developed a scent that is unique to our cafe and it has our label on it. And I can truly say that I really like the smell. And then that, I think it works super well.
Annie:
Huh. Yeah. It's important that it smells good. Did you also do a lot of experimenting with air purifiers?
Logan:
So one of the..
Annie:
I wonder if people are listening to this are going to be interested or just being like these people are nerding out about having a dog business.
Logan:
This is extremely specific.
Annie:
I think it's specific, but it's also things that applies to people's home, you know, because if you have one, if you have one dog or you have 10 dogs in and out, you still are combating like dog smell.
Logan:
Yeah. My cat just did like a fur ball thing on my couch.
Annie:
Oh fun,
Logan:
Yeah, so Sharp actually reached out to us right when we were opening and traded us some air purifiers for the cafe or they sent them to us in exchange for photos of Boris and Horton in the cafe. So that was our first like sponsored thing. But I was a little bit skeptical, like how is this going to help with the amount of dog traffic that we have, but I actually think that they've been really great and I can tell from cleaning them every night that they're really picking up a lot of the dander and dust.
Annie:
Yeah. Yeah. I found that air purifiers are key, but it can be hard to figure out like what's a, what's a good one.
Logan:
Yeah. I think we need that. Now that we have more space, we're going to add a couple more. Um, but that's a big thing. Like I'm actually slightly allergic to dogs.
Annie:
Oh.
Logan:
I can tell like when the air purifier is on or not. It's very worth it to me. Like, yeah, I'm fine to be sniffling a little bit if I get to be in the presence of dogs, but I know when, like if it's dirty or dusty, I can tell right away.
Annie:
So what's next for Boris and Horton? Are you going to keep expanding the current space? Are you gonna open another location or..
Logan:
We would love to open another location. So we're pretty far East right now, but we would love to be on the West side or maybe uptown. The idea is like, I think we've proven the concept. We know people want to eat and drink and hang out with our dogs outside of their apartment. Let's open more of them. So we want to be in every neighborhood. And the idea is like, we need a corner location where the coffee window, close to a dog park because a lot of our traffic is people going to and from the dog park and picking up coffee
Annie:
Right, cause you’re right in your Tompkins square.
Logan:
Right. So it's been really, really great for us. That's definitely the type of area we want to be. And we've actually found people who are now not even going into the dog run at the dog park, like this is their dog socialization.
Annie:
Right. It's so nice to be able to have a destination. I think with…you know, one thing we've been talking about at, at School for the Dogs, like it would be cool to be able to have like a personal trainer there in the mornings or something that you could like, come do your workout, have your dog like hang out there, you know?
Logan:
Yeah.
Annie:
Because you can't, a lot of people go to the gym in the morning and they walk their dog, but there's no easy way generally to combine those two things.
Logan:
I like that. Y
eah. Somebody told me one of our customers told me that they now have a good enough relationship with Flywheel, that they leave their dog in the reception area while they go to take a class like you are living the dream. That's perfect.
Annie:
I know what else can we do that can combine dogs.
Logan:
I mean, people don't want to ..
Annie:
Dentist visits?
Logan:
Imagine the permitting there.
But people don't want to leave their dogs at home. And yeah, I think there should be many more dog-friendly spots in New York.
Annie:
I think people don't want to leave their dogs at home. And there's certainly a large contingent of people, maybe non-dog owners, but probably some dog owners too, who I think, think about, you know, us saying something like that and think like, “Oh, you know, these spoiled brats need to get used to not being able to bring their dogs everywhere.” But it's really, to me about the dog, you know, like I feel like my dog’s life is happier when you know where in Rome and he can come to a cafe with me, right, without fanfare. Rather than being home alone.
Logan:
Yeah. They're pack animals. They're social animals. Yeah. But one of the things I thought was cool yesterday, I was talking to a customer and she had been in the cafe for a few hours and her dog was sitting next to her on the bench. Like the dog was just chilling. Like not playing, not doing nothing, but she was like, we do this for a few hours. And then her dog takes like the best nap of his life after. And I think the big thing there is like, there's mental stimulation in seeing other dogs and other people and being with your mom and like not just taking a nap home alone.
Annie:
Yeah, people underestimate that.
Logan:
Yeah.
Annie:
It's also cool because I think people think about the dog run as like, you, “you go play and I sit here,” you know, whereas I like to tell people like, just think about it more as like, off-leash time that you're spending with your dog. So if all your dog wants to do is sit next to you, like you shouldn't be pushing him off the bench every five minutes. Like it's ok. Or like, our off leash, playtime, we call the School Yard and when we were starting it, we were trying to figure out names for it. And we thought about, you know, the playground, play yard and we decided to keep the word “play” out of it because it's not, it's not required.
Logan:
Right.
Annie:
Of course it's an option. But yeah, I think it's, it's nice to be encouraging people to just spend time with their dogs in a way that's not, you know, you go socialize with others, but instead like we can socialize together in public.
Logan:
Yeah.
Annie:
What about some sort of outdoor cafe, would the rules there would be different?
Logan:
So they actually in 2015 passed the Dining with Dogs Bills.
Annie:
Right, right, which allows people to be able to have dogs in an outdoor seating areas.
Logan:
Yes, even if you had non-disposable… the health department has this like, idea about open air. So to them, you can have non-disposable, you could have waitress service, but because you're going on to like a patio or something like that, it's fine. So one thing that we would love in a future location would be to have like a side yard or backyard because then we can get people on like the most beautiful day of the year to be utilizing Boris and Horton in a different way. Like they're still experiencing the outside and that's great, but they're having…
Annie:
Can you not have outdoor seating?
Logan:
The width of our sidewalk makes it difficult. And I do think it would become this like other stressor where we’re having to…we take responsibility for our customers, so I think would be stressful if every single table had a dog at it and now we're like monitoring those interactions, but we need to be inside. So….because I do think it's different having a cafe that is not marketed to dogs that might have a couple of dogs outside versus our cafe where like every table would be taken up with the dog.
Annie:
Right. Right. Well, I was just thinking about like Shake Shack, for example, which is located in Madison Square Park where you can bring your dog and they have the Puccini for dogs, although it's really just custard with the, like a dollop of peanut butter.
Logan:
I feel worried how that comes out the other end. I don't think it would go down well for my dog.
Annie:
Anything that we haven't covered that you think is worth mentioning.
Have you had a moment where you're like, ah, this is actually working, whether that's because of the numbers or because of the people there or…
Logan:
Actually, I think I had that moment when I was gone for my brother's wedding last weekend and me and my dad were not at the cafe for the first weekend, since we've expanded. And our regular customers came in on Monday and we're like saying good things about their Saturday and Sunday visits. And we saw, obviously we see tags on social media and things like that, and I was like, it is starting to become a well-oiled machine where like we can potentially take days off. And like, everything that we've put into place is actually working.
Annie:
I know that feeling as a business owner and you're like, Oh my gosh, I've made something that works without me.
Logan:
Right. I mean, that's the biggest thing is like being able to remove yourself from the situation and it still works.
Annie:
Yeah. That's really exciting.
Logan:
So that was exciting ‘cause there's future weekend days off in my dream.
Annie:
You have big dreams.
Logan:
And have you been approached about other kinds of partnerships or sponsorships.
Logan:
We do get a lot of, like, merchandise partnerships, a lot of like treat companies and food companies and things like that. Well we actually have a little bit of a reality show coming out…
Annie:
What tell me!
Logan:
Wee've been approached. We had a lot of media interest when we first opened, it was a new concept. And one of the things that we went with is a Netflix documentary about dogs. And one of the episodes uses Boris and Horton as sort of like the backdrop, to a few different New York centric dog stories. So they picked up a couple of our customers who have a strong bond with their dogs and followed them around. And then they also followed around Hearts and Bones on a rescue trip to Dallas and then back to Boris and Horton for an adoption event. So that's going to be coming out soon.
Annie:
Oh, that's really neat.
Logan:
Yeah. So hopefully we look good at it. I have no idea.You never know with the reality TV, but there's definitely a lot of cute dogs and they did as a result of the show, I think they are able to pull like 33 dogs from the shelter that they weren't planning on pulling. So that's pretty cool.
Annie:
That’s really cool.
Logan:
Nothing else happens. That's really cool.
Annie:
Well, thank you so much, Logan. It's been fun to learn more about the cafe.
Logan:
Yeah. Thank you.
Annie:
I'm excited to see where it's going to go and I'm excited that it's working.
Logan:
Yeah, me too.
Annie:
I mean, when you first opened, I thought, you know,I hope this works, but it's certainly a non tested area and right. And I know that, you know, when you're committing to opening a business in New York City, it's hard to do something that's, that's not totally certain, right?
Logan:
It's not a small undertaking, but if nothing else we've proved that people want to be inside with their dogs and then they keep coming back.
Annie:
And that coffee and dogs are a good…
Logan:
Yeah. They're mood boosters for sure.
Annie:
True. They're both. They're both mood boosters.
Um, what's next cannabis cafe with dogs.
Logan:
Well, we've been doing CBD stuff for dogs, so that could be something.
Annie:
There we go.
Speaking to Horton
And Horton, it was lovely to meet you here. You're just a peach. He's so cute.
—
Annie:
You can visit Boris and Horton online at borisandhorton.com or go to the cafe, which is located at 195 Avenue A on the corner of 12th street in the East Village, quite close to our brand new studio, which we just opened last week, which you definitely have to come by and visit, uh, which is located on East Seventh Street between First and A right near First Avenue. It's 92 East Seventh Street. Our shop is about three times as high as it was before and it's a two story space come on by someone. Is there pretty much every day during the weekend, till seven and on the weekends till around six. So we'd love to see you.
Fun Dog Fact of the day a California couple has invented a vest called the coyote vest, which is designed to keep dogs from getting attacked by coyotes. Isn't that cool? It's brightly colored Kevlar, thin Kevlar. And it has these crazy like plastic spikes or whiskers that pop out of it all over along with metal spikes. It's very weird and, sort of, scary looking or at least scary, I guess if you're a coyote, that's the idea. If you're a person they're just kinda wild looking. But I think it's a pretty genius concept. A lot of dogs are killed by coyotes, maybe not so much in Manhattan, but there are coyotes in New York City too, if you can believe it. I wonder also if these would deter hawks, I have some clients who have balconies on high buildings in New York City and they do worry about their dogs getting picked up by hawks. So if this is a concern of yours, check out the show notes. I will link to this new coyote vest product
And our Woof Shout Out today, t's a sad one, it’s a Woof Shout Out to the beyond. We just lost a client who had become a very good friend of mine over the years, Ellen Retter, who started training with her dog, Lucy at School for the Dogs about four, four and a half years ago. And I just fell in love with her. She was an older lady who went to North Shore with a friend of hers to look at dogs for her friend. And she ended up seeing this nine month old scruffy terrier sitting in a cage at North Shore. And even though she didn't expect to get a dog, she fell in love. She ended up naming this dog, Lucy, and she and Lucy were just such a wonderful pair of ladies.
Lucy is one of the smartest dogs I've ever met, just a real natural brain. And I worked with the two of them every week for many, many months, sometimes just doing fun stuff ‘cause the three of us enjoyed hanging out so much. I also worked with them to help train Lucy to let Ellen know when someone was at the door or when the phone rang because Ellen's hearing wasn't great. So Lucy ended up, uh, being a service dog in that way for Ellen. And anyway, I just learned yesterday that Ellen died suddenly last week and I'm still getting used to the idea that she's gone and I'm feeling very sad about it. Very sad also for Lucy who loved her so much, but glad that I got to be a part of her life and got to know her.
And there are lots of little reminders of her all throughout School for the Dogs. She was a huge fan of school for the dogs, a real big cheerleader and supporter, which I really appreciated. She gave us the clock, which is now in our downstairs space when we moved into our East Second Street space. And I will forever look at that clock and think of her.
So Ellen, if you're listening to this in the great beyond, I love you and thanks for all the love you gave to Lucy and to me and to School for the Dogs. And you will be very much missed by so many people who enjoyed your smile and your laugh and your loveliness.
Links:
