22 OctEpisode 175 | Why you shouldn’t dress up your dog. Also: Dog training with “Buy Nothing,” Tooth Fairy tales & more
Annie talks about why she is generally against costumes for dogs and suggests some alternatives to dressing up your dog on Halloween. She also discusses some feedback she got about last week’s episode, which featured an interview with the lawyer representing the woman who was mauled by Cesar Millan’s dog. Lastly, she shares two anecdotes: one about how she is using a Buy Nothing group on Facebook to get neighbors to help her train her dog (unbeknownst to them) and the other about how her attempt to use negative reinforcement to get her daughter to brush her teeth ultimately back fired (in a sort of hilarious way). Like this episode? Leave a review on iTunes! Follow us on Instagram: @schoolforthedogs @annie.grossman
Subscribe: iTunes
Mentioned in this episode:
Treat N Train Remote treat dispenser
School For The Dogs Community App
Ronda Kaysen’s NY Times article on Buy Nothing
Related episodes and articles:
Episode 31 | Halloween & Dogs: How to make costumes less scary for pets – School For The Dogs
The psychological torment of a dog on Halloween – Anniegrossman.com
The East Village Halloween Parade For East Village Humans Who Enjoy Dressing Up Dogs – The Awl
Transcript:
[music and intro]
Annie:
Hello, so today's episode is a little bit of a hodgepodge. I have four things I want to talk about. One is a response to last week's episode. One is a bit of advice. And then I have two, I guess, stories to tell. One about operant conditioning and my daughter, and the other about some dog training success I've had with my own dog. A sort of clever solution to a problem I was having that I'd like to tell y’all about. Because maybe this, what would you call it, scheme that I've come up with could work for you too.
Okay. First thing I want to address is that we're about a week away from Halloween and I've had a couple of people say to me, you really need to do some kind of episode about Halloween. Although every year when people start suggesting this, it's already October, and I think to myself I should have done an episode about this six months ago. Because if you are going to dress up your dog for Halloween, you should start acclimating them to that costume well in advance, ideally.
But the other reason around this time of year I always hesitate to talk about Halloween, although I guess I have in the past, is that my advice about dogs and costumes and Halloween at this point is so simple that I feel like I can't fill up a whole episode talking about it. My advice is don't do it. Don't dress up your dog for Halloween.
Now sure, there are some people who really are going to put in the work to acclimate a dog to be comfortable in some kind of get up months in advance. Other people have really bomb proof dogs that it doesn't matter if you strap a cardboard piano to your dog.
There's this, in New York City where I am, there's this on Tompkins Square Halloween parade for dogs every year that — I mean, yes, I know it's fun to do things with your dogs. But the costumes some people come up with, I mean, sometimes they're really clever and funny.
But sometimes they're just — like the one I always think of, this guy glued a piano, like a piano made out of cardboard to his dog somehow. I guess he didn't glue it exactly to his dog, but you know what I mean. It was basically like a cardboard piano atop a dog. And I thought this isn't a dog dressed up as a piano. This is a cardboard piano balanced on top of a dog, which is…it's strange.
And when you think about it from a dog's point of view, going to parade like this, dressed up, balancing this weird object on your back, probably for the first time, maybe uncomfortable, certainly unsure about what's going on. And then you're in a sea of other dogs who are also balancing weird cardboard human creations on themselves. If you try and picture what it might be like for a dog, the whole thing is pretty weird.
So again, if you have a dog that you can do anything to, and your dog is fine, then go for it, you know, let your dog dress up as Princess Leia. But for everyone else, keep an eye out for your dog's body language. Make sure your dog really is as comfortable as you would like your dog to be. There are too many photos on Facebook, on Instagram at this time of year of dogs who you think look cute, but they are feeling pretty stressed out, and as a dog trainer I'm not into it.
So. I love when people come up with really chill costumes for dogs, costumes that don't involve huge cardboard pianos on tiny chihuahuas. One really simple costume that I've seen people put together is a TY tag, TY like T Y, like those Gund animals, stuffed animals that I know I had as a kid or Beanie Babies too would come with this tag. That's like the shape of a heart. It says T Y on it in lowercase.
And I think that's a really cute, really easy costume. Just make a big tag out of cardboard, or you can even buy these as dog costumes and put it around your dog's neck, on their collar, done and simple and sweet. And Hey, your dog is dressed up like a doggy Beanie Baby. Especially works well on dogs that are doodles, sort of Teddy bear-like dogs.
I've also seen people make a Scooby doo tag. If you have a nice big brown dog, American brown dog as my friend Kiki Yablon calls brown mutts. Or a bloodhound type dog, whatever. Make a Scooby-Doo tag, turquoise diamond shape that says S and D on it.
Another alternative is chalk, like hair chalk. If you have a dog who's a lighter color, you can use hair chalk, and I don't know, give your dog some hair color. I actually did this with my dog Amos once. He was all black. I said light colored dogs, but it can work on dark colored dogs too with white hair chalk. I gave him one time for Halloween stripes. So he looked like he was wearing prisoner garb. And another time I put white all the way down his back to make him look like a skunk.
There's also a company called Pet Paint that makes dog hairsprays, colored hairsprays, and they even sell stencils. So you can stencil your dog with spray paint like a cheetah, or you can stencil spiders or hearts. Really, really kind of interesting company, petpaint.com. Only problem is when I've experimented with Pet Paint is some dogs are really scared by the sound of a spray can, essentially. But the company also makes dog hair extensions and dog diamonds which can be glued onto a dog's fur with pet safe glue.
So those are sort of some other alternatives, things that you can do that don't involve putting your dogs in crazy outfits.
One other thing we did at School for the Dogs a few years ago was we made costumes out of cones. Like E collars that dogs have to wear when they're recovering from surgery or whatever.
And I think we tried to do it like a month early and we decorated them. Like we, we put sort of olives, big olives on one made out of styrofoam balls so that it looked like a martini glass. Another one we glued cardboard petals to it so it looked like a flower.
But it was about, you know, how can we teach the dogs to wear these collars that are going to be something they might actually have to wear at some point anyway. So how can we acclimate them to wearing collars, but also sort of at the same time, turn it into a costume, make it fun, dah, dah, dah.
But if you're jonesing to make some sort of elaborate dog costume that might make your dog feel uncomfortable, take that energy and find someone who has a kid and make the costume costume for them, or make it for yourself. That's my not very fun advice on that.
Second thing I wanted to talk about was last week's episode, which was an interview with the lawyer who was putting together a case that might end up going to trial against Cesar Millan, representing this young woman who was quite brutally attacked by Cesar Millan's late dog, Junior.
I got some response to this episode that… not quite critical, I guess I would just say response, mostly from professional dog trainers, who seemed disappointed that Brian Adesman the lawyer did not seem more informed about how poor or out of date Caesar Millan's techniques are. And I have to say, it was a little bit tricky interviewing him as someone who is so passionate about this stuff, because I called up him to find out more about this case. I didn't really feel like I was in the position of schooling him about what good dog training really looks like in my opinion.
And this is something I've run into a few times before. I've spent about half of my adult life now as a dog trainer, and the half of my adult life before that I spent as a journalist. And while I see myself as attempting to meld those two things, I mean, in talking about dogs, writing about dogs, et cetera, et cetera, it's hard for me to do it in the way that I would have imagined doing it.
I mean, before I became a dog trainer really working with people, I thought, well, I'll write about dogs, and I'm going to use what I've learned about dog training to be a full-time, I don't know, like pet related journalist. And I've talked and the episode I did with Kiki Yablon a few weeks ago, I talked a little bit about why that was problematic.
But one reason I don't think I talked about in that episode that it has been problematic, not totally undoable, but just difficult, is that I really can't approach this stuff at this point without very strong opinions. So I feel like I'm more of an op-ed dog journalist at this point, if I am that at all.
And so it just put me in a funny place as I was interviewing him because yeah, I too felt that he was not super informed about dog training and the kind of divide in the world of dog training between people who strongly believe in using the least invasive techniques possible, positive reinforcement as much as possible, et cetera, and the so-called balanced trainers of the world who talk about the importance of the four quadrants.
Or people like Cesar Millan, who I don't even think talks in terms of stuff like quadrants and is more into the pseudo-science of energy, blah, blah, blah. Those who believe in dominance based training paired with this kind of science denial, superstitious approach. Don't walk through the door before your dog, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
So I don't think Brian Adesman is particularly well-informed about science-based, reward based dog training, nor do I think he is really thinking about this case in terms of dog training techniques and how poor dog training resulted not only in this attack, but surely in many more attacks by dogs who have been trained, if you want to call it that, by people using Cesar Millan's methods who have gone on to hurt people. Cases that have not entered the courts or the media. I don't think he's very informed about dog training, but most people aren't.
If this case goes to court I hope that he will become more informed, and I will certainly offer him resources. Maybe I will send him this episode as a starting point. It could really change things for a lot of people and a lot of dogs out there if some of his spurious techniques were laid out in a public manner in front of a judge.
A couple people told me they feared that the case would go more in the direction of encouraging people to fear pitbulls, and to be about breed legislation, which I am definitely against. And I also fear things could go in that direction.
So Brian, if you're listening, I don't think this is a case about how pit bulls are bad, more dangerous than any specific breed of dog. It’s this still widespread notion that dogs need to be trained with fear and intimidation and energy, and I don't know what else to call it. Woo.
And that not only was it dangerous for this person who many people would think is the most expert dog trainer in the world to have a dog roaming around his office who could bite someone, but it's dangerous to have such a person who is not certified, not using modern approaches, not using the science to give people advice on dog training, period.
Also someone pointed out to me that he said that dog training is an inherently dangerous profession or something like that, which I don't even remember hearing him say I wish I had interjected when he did say that, but I must've been thinking about what my next question was going to be or something.
Because, yeah, it should not be an inherently dangerous position. I can definitely see why someone who knows nothing about dog training might say that or think that, but in my experience, good dog trainers do not get bit. I'm not saying it can't happen, but it really shouldn't happen. And that's not only because of precautions that we put in place. It's also because we're using methods that are setting up our dogs to succeed.
If you ever have watched any of Cesar Millan’s shows, you'll know that he goes in and says, show me the problem. And then he sees a dog do all the things that the people don't want the dog to do: bite, jump, pull, react in not good ways. And I don't know any dog trainer who is any good who would ever do that. We don't want to see the behaviors that we are trying to get rid of, because in those cases, the dog is just practicing those behaviors. We're trying to set the dog up for success.
There was a comment on my Instagram. I thought this person bursama dogs said it really well. They said “defining dog training as an inherently dangerous profession could potentially hinder efforts towards science-based LIMA methods,” LIMA standing for least invasive minimally aversive. “I don't consider this a risk-free profession, but I certainly would consider myself poorly skilled if I'm often provoking dogs to attack me.”
The third thing I wanted to talk about is Buy Nothing. So Buy Nothing is a Facebook group or many Facebook groups, they're neighborhood based. So I'm in a Buy Nothing for my neighborhood in Manhattan. But basically they're just places where people can post things that they're trying to get rid of or things that they are looking for but don't want to buy. And there's also other groups, there's an email list called Trash Nothing, or you could use which is basically the same thing, or on Craigslist people give things away for free all the time. I've done plenty of that.
But I've been really into it lately because my husband and I, now that we have a second kid and live in a New York City apartment, have been trying to get rid of stuff to make as much space as possible.
And sort of a funny aside, one of my best friends and I have sort of together been using Buy Nothing a lot in our separate locations, she's in Jersey and we like send each other the most ridiculous things that we see on Buy Nothing. And she is actually a reporter for the New York Times. And she just did this really funny column all about Buy Nothing where she quoted in the column one of the women who has taken lots of things for me in my neighborhood.
Because that's sort of, part of what's funny about Buy Nothing is some people are really vigilant and clearly getting tons of stuff from Buy Nothing, going around their neighborhoods. Not cleaning out their apartments, but taking things to fill up their apartments. Anyway, so I have been giving away things on Buy Nothing, which I love to do because it makes me feel like things are going into someone's home rather than into a landfill. It makes me feel a little bit better about our consumerist society.
But my husband totally does not get it. He's like, you are not going to stop the landfills from piling up by giving away this random Tupperware container, rather than putting it in the trash. He's like, let someone else buy their own Tupperware container. And he's seen me go through some admittedly crazy lengths. There was one time where I exchanged something like 20 messages with this woman in my neighborhood, coordinating her picking up a package I had of 10 binder clips, which you could probably buy at Staples for $3.
Anyway. His lighthearted critique of my obsession with getting rid of things on Buy Nothing just sort of made me reflect on it a little bit more. Why am I doing this? What am I getting out of it besides just getting rid of stuff, which is something that does inherently feel good. And I thought, it's how would I look at this in a dog training way?
And I thought, you know, I guess this is really about classical conditioning. I am helping people have good associations with me, really. I'm giving you something that you want, you're coming to my apartment to get the thing. I guess you could say I'm training people to feel good about Buy Nothing as an organization, and sort of training people to feel good about me as I'm giving them something that they want.
But of course in general, I'm probably never going to see these people again. So I don't really care too much what they think about me. I mean, I guess Buy Nothing as an organization, and Rhonda, my friend talks about this in the article she just wrote, it's supposed to be about building communities, et cetera, et cetera. And maybe in different times, I would maybe invite someone into my apartment to have a glass of wine before they leave with my old Ikea coffee table. But let's face it. We're not living in a moment where anyone is too thrilled about inviting strangers into their homes to hang out.
So then I thought, well, if I was trying to use operant conditioning to train these people to do something more than just come to my apartment and get my old shit, what would I want them to do? I mean, I have a reward that I am offering these people. So one would think maybe there would be some kind of behavior they could engage in to get this reward.
And I really couldn't think of anything that would be appropriate, but then I did. It dawned on me what I needed these people to do.
So let me back up a second and remind faithful listeners of the episode I did a few weeks ago where I talked about this incident where this guy, I think having a mental episode, wandered in to our apartment over the summer and everyone was fine. And we all recovered super quickly from this strange event, except for our dog Poppy, who was really traumatized by the whole episode and became pretty reactive to anyone entering our apartment, at least anyone that she didn't know.
And so I wrote to half a dozen or so friends a week or so after it happened, friends of mine who Poppy has never met to see if I could get them to come over at some point so that I could work with Poppy on this issue, but it ended up being really hard to get anyone to come over. It was just logistically hard for for me and for them to organize. And I kind of gave up on trying to solicit my friends to help me with this dog training task.
And, you know, it can be hard to predict when someone's coming to your apartment, especially again, in COVID times, not having a whole lot of people over. Whenever we ordered food, I would try and be very like, thoughtful about it and make sure that I was prepared to work with Poppy when the food delivery person buzzed and came to the door.
But then it hit me that with Buy Nothing, I had exactly what I needed! I had a situation where people were willingly coming to my apartment. I knew when they were going to show up pretty much and I had a reward for them. They were coming literally to get something that they wanted. So what more of an incentive could there be?
Anyway, once this dawned on me, I started getting rid of so much stuff! Like walking around my apartment trying to find things that I can post to Buy Nothing, because it's been possible to get pretty much someone every single day to come by and take something. And in the process I can get in like a minute of working with Poppy because, you know, people are coming by to get something.
I haven't even told them that I'm working with my dog. I've just found that people are willing to kind of stand in my doorway for 30 seconds or a minute while I give treats to my dog on her dog bed 12 feet away from the door, because they're getting something for nothing. So I stand by her bed giving her treats, and I try and talk to the person a little bit, and usually it's conversation comes up, oh, I have a dog. And uh, your dog is cute. Whatever. It's actually kind of a nice interaction.
And it has done wonders. Poppy is doing so much better. Everyone's been commenting on it. She still barks a little bit, but barking is not the end of the world. She does run to her bed now when the doorbell goes off. I also have a Treat and Train. I keep the button for the Treat and Train by my intercom. So I start triggering the Treat and Train so it dispenses treats near her bed as soon as someone rings. And then I go over the bed and give her treats at the bed.
And then I usually, if the person's okay with it, we'll let her go say hi to whoever's at the door. But at that point she has sort of calmed down and she's not rushing at the door barking and fearful. She is in a much better space to make that introduction with the person at the door.
So it's been a huge game changer. And what's hilarious is I didn't even tell my husband at first that I had sort of come up with this, I don't know what you call it…like I said, scheme, plot, whatever, for training Poppy. But the other day he was walking around the apartment and he was like, wow, it's so amazing. We've gotten so rid of so much stuff. Isn't it great?
I was like, let me tell you what I've been doing.
Oh yeah. A big fan now of Buy Nothing for for this reason. And the same reasons as before. And actually if you're not on Facebook, or even if you are on Facebook, make sure to join the School for the Dogs Community App, you can get there schoolforthedogs.com/community or it's in the app store. Because we're starting to do Buy Nothing there for dog stuff. Really with anyone who is there, Buy Nothing is generally more of a local group.
But hey, if you want something I'm giving away for free, and I certainly have lots of dog things to give away for free all the time. If you're willing to pay for the shipping, I will happily ship it to you. so make sure to join the app for that fun reason. Although it might not help you with training your dog to be good with people coming through the door, if it's through the mail, but it doesn't stop it from being fun.
Last thing I wanted to talk about today in this episode that's kind of jumping around, but thanks for being here, is just a funny thing that happened last night with my daughter who is two and a half that involves getting behaviors using negative reinforcement and the problem, or one problem, with doing that.
So six months ago or so I was trying to get her to brush her teeth. And I told her, Hey, if you don't brush your teeth, your teeth are gonna fall out. And as soon as I said it, I thought, well, I shouldn't have said that because of course her teeth are gonna fall out eventually. And of course, when you're five or six, it's actually quite rewarding when your teeth fall out. And I don't want her to think when her teeth do fall out, that it happened because she didn't brush her teeth enough.
So I thought, you know, okay, I'm never going to tell her that again, because it's too complicated to explain that actually your teeth are to fall out once I've told her that they're going to fall out if she doesn't brush her teeth. But she hung onto this notion that she has to brush her teeth or else your teeth would fall out, even though I was not really reinforcing this idea anymore.
And every now and then she would say, if I don't brush my teeth and my teeth gonna fall out? And I'd say yeah. I'm thinking maybe by the time her teeth actually do fall out she'll forget about these conversations.
But last night she said to me that she didn't want to brush her teeth because she wanted her teeth to fall out, because she wanted the tooth fairy to come. She watches a lot of Peppa Pig, and there's Peppa pig episode where the tooth fairy comes to give Peppa Pig money for her tooth. And it just struck me as such a funny example of how with any kind of training, what was a reward can become an aversive, and vice versa.
Here, suddenly, her teeth coming out — I was getting her to brush her teeth by the threat that if she didn't, something would be taken away from her, literally her teeth, became something that she actually wanted. So the behavior I had been trying to encourage with the threat that otherwise her teeth would be taken away suddenly became discouraged because she actually liked the idea that her teeth may be taken away, because it would mean the tooth fairy would come.
So, quick thinking, my husband and I said, you know what? The tooth fairy only likes very clean teeth. So you better brush those teeth so that the tooth fairy comes. And she wasn't sure she was buying this idea. So I called Kate, Kate Senisi, my business partner, last night at 8:00 PM. She picked up and I said, “Hello, is this the tooth fairy?” She was like, “Annie?” [laughs] And I just turned my back on Magnolia quickly and said, “Kate, can you just pretend you're the tooth fairy for a second?” And I said, “Magnolia here doesn't believe me that you only like clean teeth. Can you tell her?”
And so I put Magnolia on the phone with Kate who did a very good impromptu impression of the tooth fairy, explaining to two year old Magnolia, why it's so important to brush your teeth. So big thanks to Kate Senisi for helping me train my daughter to brush her teeth. And I assured Magnolia that the behavior of toothbrushing will be positively reinforced in the future because talking to the tooth fairy is very positively reinforcing, and I have her phone number.
[music and outro]
